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[Kassire]

Spoiler: Bron (click to show/hide)

Characteristics (Rolled)
42 Strength
40 Agility
32 Intelligence
31 Fellowship
42 Weapon Skill
30 Willpower
44 Toughness
40 Ballistic Skill
33 Perception

Wounds: 15
4 Corruption

Origin Path
Death World
Scavenger
Mutant: Vile Deformity
The Hand of War: Chaos Worshipers
Pride: Rolled Best Quality Chain sword (Made me want to go Melee-focused)

Skills:
 Common Lore (war) (Int), Dodge (Ag), Intimidate (S), Scholastic Lore (Tactica Imperialis) (Int), Secret Tongue (Military) (Int), Speak Language (Low Gothic) (Int), Survival (Basic),

Talents:
Basic Weapon Training (universal), Pistol Weapon Training (Universal), Melee Weapon Training (Universal), Thrown Weapon Training (Universal), Sound Constitution, Melee Weapon Training (Primitive), Resistance (Fear), Fear (1), Weapon master (Melee), Ambidextrous, Quick Draw, Jaded, Heavy Weapon Training (Launcher)

Special:
-10 penalty Interaction skill tests in formal situations
+10 bonus to pinning and shock
-10 to fellowship in dealings with Chaos Worshipers
+10 to hit Chaos Worshipers
Things not Terrors of the Warp will not cause Insanity points or Fear Tests

RANK 1
0 EXP:
Ambidextrous, Quick Draw, simple: ballistic skill

Equipment:
Artificer Armor (common) Entire-Body AP: 10+TB 75kg +20 STR Hulking Size 24 hour power supply, inbuilt: auspex, photovisor, voidsuit, recoil gloves. Sturdy Trait.

Hellgun (good) Range 110m RoF: S/3/- Dam:1d10+4 E Pen: 7 Clip:30 Rld: 2 Full Spc: Reliable 6 kg

Chain-Sword (Best) Dam: 1d10+5+SB R Pen:2 Spc: Tearing, Balanced  6kg

Knife (Best)(Mono) Range: 5m Dam: 1d5+3+SB R Pen:2  kg: 1 +20 to attack

Void Suit

Enforcer Light Carapace (common) Entire-Body AP: 5+TB 15kg

Microbead, bolt shell, medikit, manacles, arms coffer, bolt keepsake, mask and ordinary clothes (likely utilitarian)
Edge-fest Mind Dialogue:
     I am a leader for I have proved myself. I have found myself upon scavenged treasure, dead corpses, and a wish to be among the greatest. To serve the Rogue Trader loyally will surely allow myself to be above the rabble from wish I was from. The death of millions a second only allows me to bring great vengeance upon those that wronged me. Xeno or mutant means nothing, but only to the hell that is my heart. To be great shall bring me on the path to right my wrongs, and to slaughter those that took the fire from my heart. Those that took my love.
     Here, where the Emperors light doesn’t touch, is rife with the swill of chaos and those that pain me. My great justice, not the Emperors, not the Rogue Trader, will be given swiftly and justly. Those in my way shall only falter.
     My life, the others can be sacrificed. This whole damned ship and it’s crew. Millions and the entire Imperium can fall. For in the end, death of everything will be the only option.
To bring death, and glory to who vowed themselves to me. Oh how she would delighted to this day, yet grimness and hell is what is left. My ambition is to drive my blade into all that is left. Those damn cowards that kill and pray for the Dark Gods only for a scrap of a boon, or merely a wink from their lowliest minion. They are what I’m after. For what they are what I shall bring to them, even the Emperor shall grimace, and the Imperium shall shake in it’s boots.

Edgier Bad Backstory:
Bron had come from a backwash Death World, scraping by to survive, living life by the sword, and trying too not die in life. He had scavenged through the world, seeming finding random scraps of weaponry, food, and technology. He had been detached to those around him, trying to appease the any one of the warlords that has taken over the area. Yet, he had soon found himself in love with another death worlder, a woman named Ovina, that had captured his thoughts, mind, and body. They had lived together even, ate together, hunted, scavenged, and engaged in other such intimate activities. Yet, his life was one of death and war. The damned Warlord who had taken over his vicinity, a man known as Nagash, who had happened to be a part of some Chaos cult and had been forming a military, and had forced many conversions by the sword. Several men armed with spears and blades had forced themselves in Bron's residence and took Ovina. Bron, logically, had resisted, and fought with two of them whilst the rest of the group hauled his love off. With two dead warriors on his hands, he had armed himself and tracked them down. Only to walk into some twisted chaos ritual under the stars. Nagash himself was there, seeming delighted as he had his men tie Ovina down, spoke many words, and brought down his knife upon her. Bron found himself in the middle of this ritual, and threw himself at him, and his men. Yet, he was not sure what had happened, he only found himself unconscious on the grounds that his beloved died, himself having a terrible visage, terribly ugly, a mutant, surrounded by the bodies of Nagash and his men. He, from there, scavenged and lived on, but now a grim, sorrowful, bitter, and angry person. Yet he was a capable man, finding himself as the most honored warrior of a Warlord named Manan. One day, a rogue trader down on his luck had landed his ship on the planet, and he was quickly hired on, wishing very little in payment. He had worked his way up in the ranks of the ship, being a ferocious soldier in boardings and expeditions, and a willing crewman when working the most horrible of jobs. Bron rose up the ranks, and had become favored by many in the crew, with his superiors not minding unexplained absences on occasion when landing on planets. He had scavenged battlefields on far-off planets, and searched through caves for some more thrones to save and spend, on alcohol and other such things. Though, one day, he had struck gold, he found an incredibly expensive chainsword of masterful quality, upon some shallow tomb likely made by some zealot. Bron no longer thought of his sorrows about Ovina on a daily basis, yet he still had a hatred against chaos and those who worshiped it. Despite Bron being a great warrior, the Rogue Trader he was hired by, was so deep in debt, he had sold his ship. Bron lived on as a combative dreg on a fuedal world, yet he never became accustomed before he proved himself to another Rogue Trader, a man named Holt Kennoch, a man of similar beginnings, if not power. Though Bron was capable, and made quite the fortune and skill under Holt, gaining much good equipment, and good standing and rank in the ship. Soon finding himself in the Aurorus Expanse in another of Holt's ventures.

Description
A large, bulky, cloaked up, and armored to all hell presumable man. 7 to 8 feet tall, with a rough voice, and a confident stance at most times.

Yes and no. Yes in that you did all your math correctly, no in the Errata jumps the Power Armor's rarity up a notch. You would be able to get Common Quality Power armor though. Even then it isn't -that- great, the power pack makes it fairly crippling. Other books have power armor with better battery life that you might technically be able to purchase if you want.

Judging by  the response Artificer Armour seems like a good choice.

Artificer Armor then, I guess?

EDIT: Oh god Artificer Armor's description does imply it's the most badass thing ever.

[Stirk]

Judging by  the response Artificer Armour seems like a good choice.

I would request that the GM bumps Artificer Armor up to *at least* near unique. It basically makes you immune to small arms fire, and it should be more rare than standard power armor.

Spoiler: Bron (click to show/hide)

Characteristics (Rolled)
47 Strength
40 Agility
32 Intelligence
31 Fellowship
42 Weapon Skill
30 Willpower
44 Toughness
40 Ballistic Skill
33 Perception

Wounds: 14
4 Corruption

Origin Path
Death World
Scavenger
Mutant: Vile Deformity
The Hand of War: Chaos Worshipers
Pride: Rolled Best Quality Chain sword (Made me want to go Melee-focused)

Skills: Common Lore (war) (Int), Dodge (Ag), Intimidate (S), Scholastic Lore (Tactica Imperialis) (Int), Secret Tongue (Military) (Int), Speak Language (Low Gothic) (Int), Survival (Basic),

Talents: Basic Weapon Training (universal), Pistol Weapon Training (Universal), Melee Weapon Training (Universal), Thrown Weapon Training (Universal), Sound Constitution, Melee Weapon Training (Primitive), Resistance (Fear), Fear (1), Weapon master (Melee?), Ambidextrous, Quick Draw

RANK 1
0 EXP:
Ambidextrous, Quick Draw, simple: ballistic skill

Equip:

Yes and no. Yes in that you did all your math correctly, no in the Errata jumps the Power Armor's rarity up a notch. You would be able to get Common Quality Power armor though. Even then it isn't -that- great, the power pack makes it fairly crippling. Other books have power armor with better battery life that you might technically be able to purchase if you want.

Judging by  the response Artificer Armour seems like a good choice.

Artificer Armor then, I guess?

EDIT: Oh god Artificer Armor's description does imply it's the most badass thing ever.

Help! The cheese is multiplying  .

Really though. With 4TB and 10 armor, you have 14 defense. Autoguns deal a max of 13, so do lasguns, not to even mention the pistols. Anything without a lot of pierce isn't gonna hurt you a lot, compared to the 5~ armor you *should* have.

((Still not as OP as the guncutter though ))

[Criptfeind]

I guess that confirms it's the right choice when another player starts asking that you're not allowed it. 

Anyway, if we wanta try to do some like artifical flatting of combat powers across the players I'm not necessarily against it. Although I don't think that his theoretical 14 damage resistance is that much further away from your 9 then your 9 is from like, the Seneschal only-partially-covering 5.

[Aseaheru]

 Im still trying to figure out what to get for my dude. Currently I'm thinking either a bolt carbine, one of the new voidsuits(the footfallen or the pressure carapace), the AKU-like thing or a ship to use, but I'm still debating.

[Criptfeind]

After some further reflection I'm coming around to the idea of a guncutter tbh.

[Stirk]

I guess that confirms it's the right choice when another player starts asking that you're not allowed it. 

Anyway, if we wanta try to do some like artifical flatting of combat powers across the players I'm not necessarily against it. Although I don't think that his theoretical 14 damage resistance is that much further away from your 9 then your 9 is from like, the Seneschal only-partially-covering 5.

It isn't "artificial flatting", its "game balance". On its own, the armor is fine, but it isn't something that two characters should have at chargen -_-. 5 and 9 is fairly far apart, but both are in a reasonable area. The Senchel is, explicitly, not combat-based and would lose to my more combat oriented RT. And it really, really is. A difference of 5 is very powerful when a system is using d10s.

[GiglameshDespair]

The warhammer rpgs tend to have a much greater difference between combat-focused and non-focused characters. Armour is good, but it's not the be-all end-all. Power armour does have the charge limit, and it's hardly subtle, so it might not always be the most suitable.

If I get a lascannon (acquisition and talent from Hand of War) it does 5d10+10 damage with 10 armour piercing. With the Bulging Biceps trait I got through blackbone implant I can fire it without bracing. Your armour would not protect you. Of course, we probably won't run into too many lascannons.

Any character can be killed pretty quickly if they don't use tactics. A common frag grenade does 2d10. A krak does 2d10+4 with 6 armour pen. Bolters, meltas, flame and plasma, all can hurt.

[Kassire]

When using melee weapons, do we add our strength bonus for damage or...?

[GiglameshDespair]

Yes.
With throwing weapons, as well.

[Kassire]

Yes.
With throwing weapons, as well.

Thanks

[Stirk]

The warhammer rpgs tend to have a much greater difference between combat-focused and non-focused characters. Armour is good, but it's not the be-all end-all. Power armour does have the charge limit, and it's hardly subtle, so it might not always be the most suitable.

If I get a lascannon (acquisition and talent from Hand of War) it does 5d10+10 damage with 10 armour piercing. With the Bulging Biceps trait I got through blackbone implant I can fire it without bracing. Your armour would not protect you. Of course, we probably won't run into too many lascannons.

Any character can be killed pretty quickly if they don't use tactics. A common frag grenade does 2d10. A krak does 2d10+4 with 6 armour pen. Bolters, meltas, flame and plasma, all can hurt.

The Artificer power armor they want has a 24-hour power pack, making it actually practical to use. It certainly isn't subtle, but then it again it hardly *needs* to be. I am well aware that heavy weapons can actually hurt it, and as you said, that would mean the enemies all have to have heavy weapons for it to be under legitimate threat. A 2d10 weapon has an average damage value of 11, with only a 21% chance of dealing *any* damage-if they are hit by it without any cover and the enemies manage to use it without blowing themselves up. 2d10+4 is a bit better, actually being able to reliably damage the enemy, but again that would mean our opponents would have to be outfitted with AT grenades to prove a valid threat, and even then it would deal more damage to everyone who isn't outfitted in the most OP armor in the game. And all those weapons come with some drawbacks, you can blow yourself up with a grenade, they have enough agility to make getting set on fire not terribly likely in they do get hit, plasma is also likely to blow them up on them, bolters probably aren't going to be too common, and meltas have not much range and like three shots per clip.

[Criptfeind]

It isn't "artificial flatting", its "game balance".

I think it's both actually!

5 and 9 is fairly far apart, but both are in a reasonable area.

I think my question is reasonable for what? It shifts the scale of reasonable combat dramatically in the same way the artificer armour does. A minor scratch on you is a deadly wound to the Senchel in the same way that a minor scratch though artificer armor is a deadly wound on you. Where is the line drawn? If it's drawn in a place that happens to be "So Striks character isn't super threatened in combat but at the same time isn't completely overshadowed defense wise by other options and also the Senchel will die to a single headshot" I think that's fine, just that it's worth examining why we're drawing the line there, and why we're drawing the line in the first place.

I'm saying here that if the point of this is to bring the party into balance, it doesn't really achieve it... What's the goal we're trying to achieve? If it's so a bunch of characters wearing carapace armor will take chip damage in fights and our light armored characters will get fucked and no one is immune to the medium damage weapons then okay. Remove the artificer armor and probably also the normal power armor. If it's to achieve balance in combat.... Well. Sorry.

The Senchel is, explicitly, not combat-based

Okay.

[Kassire]

Whilst everyone gets destroyed by mind-altering demons, chaos in general, psykers, the warp, and space krakens

[Stirk]

It isn't "artificial flatting", its "game balance".

I think it's both actually!

5 and 9 is fairly far apart, but both are in a reasonable area.

I think my question is reasonable for what? It shifts the scale of reasonable combat dramatically in the same way the artificer armour does. A minor scratch on you is a deadly wound to the Senchel in the same way that a minor scratch though artificer armor is a deadly wound on you. Where is the line drawn? If it's drawn in a place that happens to be "So Striks character isn't super threatened in combat but at the same time isn't completely overshadowed defense wise by other options and also the Senchel will die to a single headshot" I think that's fine, just that it's worth examining why we're drawing the line there, and why we're drawing the line in the first place.

I'm saying here that if the point of this is to bring the party into balance, it doesn't really achieve it... What's the goal we're trying to achieve? If it's so a bunch of characters wearing carapace armor will take chip damage in fights and our light armored characters will get fucked and no one is immune to the medium damage weapons then okay. Remove the artificer armor and probably also the normal power armor.

The Senchel is, explicitly, not combat-based

Okay.

The difference is my character isn't immune/near immune to the good portion of the weapons on the page. A normal pistol like we would expect to go up against is dangerous to both the senchel and the RT, do different extents. It is completely harmless to the character in power armor. That is to say, 5 and 9 are in the same threat range. The same weapons are a good deal more deadly against the senchel then against the RT, but they are in the same tier. 9 and 14 are in a completely different range, in that now you have to break heavy weapons or something with a lot of pierce to take down what is basically a walking tank, while normal weapons won't particularly scratch it.

Lets take a look at the sample enemies down at the bottom. Lets say we are fighting a group of Renegades that somehow have excellent aim. Three pull out an autogun and blast three hits at each of us. The autogun does 1d10+4 damage (a bit higher than what we got, for some reason ). With 5 armor, that is a 10% chance of not getting damaged each time, with whatever damage he does take getting reduced by five. Getting hit by three rounds of automatic fire will be very devastating. The 9 is much more powerful, with a 50% chance of not getting hit each round. He is likely to make it out with some damage, though there is a fair chance of him not getting damaged at all. There is a 100% chance for Mr. Power Armor to block it.

Now lets try an example that can actually hurt the guy in power armor. Lets say instead everyone gets hit by a burst of 1d10+7 pen 6 from a plasma rifle. Senchel quickly becomes a bloody pulp, the pen easily piercing his armor and dealing a minimum of 8 damages after that. Likewise, the RT will always take significant damage, with the minimum being 5. Not even the power armor saves him from the blast....except 10% of the time, when it totally does.

See what I am talking about? The guy in Power Armor treats plasma guns the same way the senchel treats autoguns. The RT is in slightly better shape, but not to the point of being overpowered.

[Criptfeind]

See what I am talking about?

No, not really. Light armor gets destroyed by auto guns, medium armor gets hurts, heavy armor is immune. Take it a step up and now medium armor gets destroyed and heavy armor gets hurt. A further step and everyone is destroyed. You could even take it a step down if you wished, so that light armor gets hurt and medium and heavy armor are immune.

This really seems to align with my whole point quite well that there's not a natural balance point to armor and that not having heavy armor doesn't actually solve a party balance issue because we've still got medium and light?