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Author Topic: Arms Race: Forenia vs. Sectoids (Seeking replacement GM)  (Read 32933 times)

RAM

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Re: Arms Race: Forenia vs. Sectoids (Second Half of 1940, Reverse Engineering)
« Reply #120 on: September 18, 2016, 05:17:12 pm »

And unless we have relays of large bombers flying constantly response time will be greatly increased.
It is easier to have relays of large bombers than to coat the whole island in flak...

Tell the Germans to give us more information next time. We have yet to see the products of their design bureau and a promise of "something" is too vague for our tastes.
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Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: Arms Race: Forenia vs. Sectoids (First Half of 1941, Design)
« Reply #121 on: September 18, 2016, 11:47:16 pm »

War Aid Plan Pi is put into action and the UF-1940/2-RDF v2 is sent off to the Swiss for homeland defense.  They begin their production of the device in their lands and export back to Forenia the smaller components, allowing for the costs involved to be reduced.

The axis powers fully gain their hold on the former French lands and the country is divided up between the three invading forces, Germany taking the lion's share and annexing the northern half of the country while Spain and Italy divide up the southern portions between themselves.  The Italians and Spanish turn their attention to capturing the colonial holdings on the northern coast of Africa, but it proves difficult to do so thanks to the power of the British Tanks in the region compared to their own.  Further commitment needed for the area results in plans to invade the non-axis portions of the Balkins being delayed.  To the north, Germans and British launch large air raids against the other, bombing even civilian centers.  In the east, the Soviet Union annexes Lituania, Estonia, and Latvia.  Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, and Japan join the axis power, the lattermost invading the colonies of French Indochina.

In Forenia, hidden from the eyes of foreigners, the war against the Aliens kicks into gear with the Aliens acting with near impunity.  Forenian craft are completely unable to engage the Alien fighters, even with directions from Radar installations, and unless the alien craft are slowing down, anti-aircraft fire is not able to keep up with the speed of the craft.  Two varieties are observed to exist, a small circular craft not much larger than the size of a single human, and a larger craft roughly the size of a single floor of an UF-C-77 apartment.  A trained Forenian might have been able to shoot down either of these with a bit of practice, if not for one small detail.  The former flies about with a speed of 2200 kph and the latter flies around at a speed of 2400 kph.  While there are a couple assaults upon the larger of the two craft by paratroopers luckily near where there is an abduction in progress and lucky their craft weren't shot down by the Alien's fifteen kilometer range weapons, the crew of the Alien ship manage to either get the craft away or kill off the paratroopers before a breach can be performed or a bomber rerouted in time to truly cripple the craft.  A few scrap weapons have been recovered, but it isn't much.

As a result of this dismal fighting, the Forenians start to become severely pissed at the Aliens...



United Forenia

Personal Equipment
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Land Vehicles
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Aircraft
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Artillery
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Navy
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ground Installations
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Wonder Weapons
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Available Tech
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Resource Income
(Lower due to not being at Wartime Production and effectivety being reduced due to needing to supply a larger army.)
4 Ore
3 Oil



(Yeah, those speeds I listed?  Those are the canon speeds for the two smallest, and slowest craft.  And the weapon range?  Yep, X-Com canon range.  I admit, I didn't know it was that high when I started, but oh well.  Forenia will find a way.)
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Aseaheru

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Re: Arms Race: Forenia vs. Sectoids (First Half of 1941, Design)
« Reply #122 on: September 19, 2016, 12:19:25 am »

 Our paratroopers did that badly? Thats... How?

 Well, its looking like we need to get transport less likely to get shot down. Helicopters?


-edit-

 I know this isint a transport, but it should be of use.

Spoiler:  UF-LAOA-41 "Lookout" (click to show/hide)

 Reasoning: Needed experience while also providing a useful unit for just about all areas of the military. Hopefully the design will be powerful enough(and it should be, thanks to its rotor arrangement) to revision into a light troop transport toget some better armored troops into combat.

 But yah, I dont quite understand how our troops did so badly against what are probably mostly scientists and pilots with minimal weaponry and combat training, with the odd security guard... Can we get a expanded combat report?
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 11:48:15 am by Aseaheru »
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somemildmanneredidiot

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Re: Arms Race: Forenia vs. Sectoids (First Half of 1941, Design)
« Reply #123 on: September 19, 2016, 12:28:09 am »

Due to the fact that we'll need to recover one of their craft before we can begin to have the tech to compete with them in the air, I think we will need a Skyranger or twelve. We'll aim for a fast plane that's able to deploy a couple dozen paratroopers plus equipment at once, who will from there organize and attempt to attack the landed craft.

My thinking is that we're not able to deploy the paratroopers in time with quality enough equipment to be able to successfully combat the aliens. If we make the Skyranger, we should have a better chance of success through quantity.
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VoidSlayer

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Re: Arms Race: Forenia vs. Sectoids (First Half of 1941, Design)
« Reply #124 on: September 19, 2016, 01:48:45 am »

It looks like our paratroopers were not able to actually fight the aliens when they did engage them.  We may need to also improve our weapons. 

Would an under barrel grenade launcher help? 

Maybe creating bullets with the limited supply of alien material we have?

Anti tank HEAT grenade launchers?

Improve our Tiger armor?

Send actual tigers after the aliens?

Para drop tanks?

Maybe an improved close combat weapon like a shotgun?

Just throwing stuff out there.

VoidSlayer

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Re: Arms Race: Forenia vs. Sectoids (First Half of 1941, Design)
« Reply #125 on: September 19, 2016, 01:56:19 am »

Model 5 Yellowbomber:
A fast attack dive bomber aircraft, built fully of aluminum. It has flat low wings on a relatively long, narrow fuselage which holds its V12 motor. The motor is fuel injected, and cooled by a water radiator. It has six exhaust pipes poking out under the wing on each side, and a canopy-covered pilot seat close to the tail. It is relatively sturdy and maneuverable, it is fast and makes tight maneuvers but is "temperamental", prone to going into out-of-control rolls and requiring a tight grip on the joystick.  A single 100 Kg bomb is strapped to the undercarriage and designed to be released close to the target.

Target speed of 450 kph.

Basically try to make as fast a bomber as possible to bomb any craft on the ground.  We will only get one shot at this really, but if several of them can be deployed to cripple even one craft we can take it.

Aseaheru

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Re: Arms Race: Forenia vs. Sectoids (First Half of 1941, Design)
« Reply #126 on: September 19, 2016, 03:46:27 am »

 The main difficulty, from the minute ammount of information given, seems to imply that the craft have defensive weapons that target our bombers carrying troops while they are at altitude. Main way to deal with that is to fly below their field of fire, which makes more sense with a helicopter than with a parachute. As it stands, we can probably send every bomber we have filled with paratroops and still get them all shot down, our current bomber is rather quick for the time.

 Currently, our tiger armor (along with most of our heavier weapons) is not in use, due to payload limits on parachutes. I dont think the RPG was ever used by paratroops(though mortars are).
 UGLs are worth thinking about and are important, though Im not certain they are top priority right now(again, little data on ground combat).
 Tigers are probably not doing much, they probably have taken a few for science.
 What do you mean by para drop tanks?
 A shotgun is worth thinking about, perhaps in the form of a shotgun round for the above mentioned grenade launcher(I have a design for one on the first page)

 Hey, was the Yellowjacket ever able to fight the HAFB? I thought it was slower... Also, what naming system are we going to use? I think we should do a mix, so the proposed Yellowbomber would be along the lines of "UF-FADB-41 'Yellowbomber'". Mostly because just having a name is a pain in the ass when trying to look it up. Seriously, it took me 45 minutes to find the MK-47 yesterday, and all of two to get all I needed on the UF-AR34. And then I had to find the upgraded version of the silly thing.

-edit-

Nope, I was wrong on that count. Turbochargers and three times the engine power and it still cant fly above the yellowjacket. Though, thats probably due to the lack of oxygen gear.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 04:00:56 am by Aseaheru »
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3_14159

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Re: Arms Race: Forenia vs. Sectoids (First Half of 1941, Design)
« Reply #127 on: September 19, 2016, 04:03:28 am »

Interesting reports. From what I see, we have three issues:
a) We cannot reliably (or at all) intercept UFOs due to speed.
b) We cannot reliably transport soldiers and equipment to a landed UFO.
c) The soldiers we can transport are not able to fight effectively.

Now, we cannot really fix a) quickly. We'd need either extremely fast interceptors; and those only come close to the required speeds at around 1960, with a technology we not yet have experience with. The alternative are AA systems, of which only missile systems will be able to intercept. While we do have experience with rockets, the first SAMs were only slightly faster than the UFOs, and we still lack guidance. In summary, both will take time.

In my opinion, b) and c) are closely linked. We don't have many soldiers available for attack since we have to use paratroopers, and they don't have much in the way of equipment since they are, well, paratroopers. One way to fix this would be to develop very cheap gliders, for example modeled after the CG-4/Hadrian glider, which'd be able to place 13 people at the same point, or transport a jeep or (more importantly) an artillery piece. The latter would allow us to land a UF-1912 or even possibly a Bumblebee close to the UFO, to bombard it and hopefully prevent it from taking off.
Another alternative would be to follow Aseaheru's original plan and use a helicopter to land troops close-by. The issue is that most helicopters of that time were two-seaters, and the single transport helicopter could transport only four people. It is, however, an alternative to use that one, but one that'll probably require at least one revision.

The last alternative is to follow VoidSlayer's proposal to build a very fast attack aircraft, to bomb the UFO on the ground. This runs into issues with the UFO defense of (apparently) 15 kilometres, which might necessitate low-level bombing runs. For this, however, I'd recommend exchanging the engine with a jet engine for experience in that area. A swept-wing twin-engine single-seater carrying two 250kg or four 100kg bombs, basically.
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RAM

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Re: Arms Race: Forenia vs. Sectoids (Second Half of 1940, Design)
« Reply #128 on: September 19, 2016, 04:22:32 am »

Getting a design out while I have it in my mind...
Step one, have some of these in the air at all times, strapped to bombers.
Step two, wait for one of the enemy to land, hit them with these to cripple.
Step three, take the time needed to move in with some fast ground units and a massive force of paratroops. Defend the airspace with large numbers of Banshees and conventional interceptors.
Step four, profit. Well, more likely, salvage the remains after they self-destruct, but hopefully the self-destruct systems get mangled and there is enough salvage remaining to provide some vague clues.

We cannot beat them in the air or on the ground without overwhelming numbers. We cannot apply overwhelming numbers in the air. The only option is to keep them on the ground.

Longer term, we will need a rocket interceptor with an extreme-velocity rifle on it. Or something magical like an electrical-discharge rocket that can fry the nearest thing within a kilometre when its capacitors blow or some sort of light-focusing array that can blind enemy sensors...

P.S.
 Ouch, I was hoping for W.W.II-era U.F.O.s but we are getting the full X-com package, oh well, nothing we can't handle...

P.P.S.
 The Germans have a design bureau and will win the war, just pointing that out...
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 04:17:45 pm by RAM »
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VoidSlayer

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Re: Arms Race: Forenia vs. Sectoids (First Half of 1941, Design)
« Reply #129 on: September 19, 2016, 04:35:09 am »

Uh it specifically said that the crew of the landed UFO killed our paratroopers not the craft itself.

andrea

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Re: Arms Race: Forenia vs. Sectoids (First Half of 1941, Design)
« Reply #130 on: September 19, 2016, 06:31:44 am »

both happened. generally they shoot us down, but when we managed to actually land the squad, they killed it.

Which worries me greatly, the smallest enemy craft should have a crew of just one, unless the aliens are tiny in this universe. our soldiers should have been able to kill a single alien in a fight. It seems we are fighting a very strong enemy.

The war in the air , considering their speeds, seems to be lost. we could with time get missiles and faster planes, but it is a multi turn effort.

The yellowjacket dive bomber is, in my opinion, a futile design. We already have dive bombers and the design as proposed doesn't give us any new tech, which we sorely need. Any future aircraft design should include rocket engines or jet engines.

Personally, I think we should work on ways to deploy our heavier units on the field against landed UFOs. if we are able to use our tiger armor soldiers, we will have an advantage. At least, in X-COM developing armor was a rather good step up in survivability, and we already schieved it before the war started.


I find Aseaheru's helicopter a good option, as it provides low altitude fire support, hopefully able to close range without being detected. With the autocannon and RPG attachments, it should bring considerable firepower. And even if we get it to carry only a few soldiers, we can send groups of those.


edit: that said, I am also surprised by our extremely poor performance on the ground. I expected that we would often fail to land, but I didn't think the few successful deployments would result in such bad wipes. Our soldiers aren't that underequipped compared to X-Com ones.  What difficulty are we playing at?

Sheb

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Re: Arms Race: Forenia vs. Sectoids (First Half of 1941, Design)
« Reply #131 on: September 19, 2016, 06:55:38 am »

Did any of our soldier survive long enough to describe the fight?
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Sheb

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Re: Arms Race: Forenia vs. Sectoids (First Half of 1941, Design)
« Reply #132 on: September 19, 2016, 07:02:38 am »

Also, can we ambush them? If we know the kind of place they're targetting, can't we booby-trap it?
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andrea

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Re: Arms Race: Forenia vs. Sectoids (First Half of 1941, Design)
« Reply #133 on: September 19, 2016, 07:36:03 am »

considering their speed, if they have even just a bit of erratic behavior I doubt we would have the time to ambush them. And I don't think our soldiers were able to report anything, although I would hope that the rest of the army showed up to inspect the battlefield later for clues.

Sheb

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Re: Arms Race: Forenia vs. Sectoids (First Half of 1941, Design)
« Reply #134 on: September 19, 2016, 07:39:09 am »

Well, they end up landing. If we can anticipate their targets by looking at the pattern of their previous abductions - a Moskurgian tiger brothel for example - we can prepare artilley targeting the Moskurgians, mines, armor hidden in nearby garage etc etc.
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