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[aha]

I read with shock that you people are killing off your nobles because they are lawfully punishing the peasants. If you don't have adamantite to satisfy your nobles demands - fine, but someone has to take the fall (hammer). Want communism - move to China

[BlueDestiny]

Nobles mostly get killed for mandates that are unfillable or very taxing on the fortress. Like a noble mandating the production of 50 crystal glass windows on a map with no sand.

[aha]

Very reasonable request. First year punish the glass crafter and import glass on the next year. Who is humble crafter to question demands and mandates of aristocracy? Hammer 'em or throw them to jail for example to everyone else

[Alaern]

Nobles get killed because they harm the society. One unfulfiled crazy demand can lead to death or severe injury of your only competent weaponsmith/armorer, and you know what that means on a map with no magma and little or no coal. They put both the fortress and themselves at risk by doing that, and therefore must be detained and/or maimed for their own good.

[Lord Licorice]

quote:Originally posted by aha:
<STRONG>Very reasonable request. First year punish the glass crafter and import glass on the next year. Who is humble crafter to question demands and mandates of aristocracy? Hammer 'em or throw them to jail for example to everyone else  </STRONG>

You can't import sand or glass or adamantine, so the requests will never be fulfilled on maps that don't contain them.

[Greiger]

Not making crystal glass goblets when there isn't anything to make it out of is a minor crime.  Ordering 20 hammerstrikes to a military resident for it is high treason and the offending noble deserves a slow, painful, humiliating, death and a corpse dumped down a chasm...if not deposited in the HIDDEN FUN STUFF.

[aha]

quote:Originally posted by Alaern:
<STRONG>Nobles get killed because they harm the society. One unfulfiled crazy demand can lead to death or severe injury of your only competent weaponsmith/armorer, and you know what that means on a map with no magma and little or no coal. They put both the fortress and themselves at risk by doing that, and therefore must be detained and/or maimed for their own good.</STRONG>

Point that I was trying to make, is that noble, by definition matters more than all your craftsdwarves together. Nobles demands are not to be questioned.

Can't afford to loose your smith? Train up two.
Goblin sieges also put your military in severe risk - should we get rid of them too?

Could we have some severe penalties for killing off nobles? For example decimation squad from the King. Army of battledwarves would stroll in and decimate the population - that is kill off every 10th able-bodied dwarf and drag the current mayor off in chains.

[Greiger]

Yes there does need to be some punishment for the plumbing accidents in the noble quarter, but the nobles need to start using some common sense first.

If it isn't available and can't be imported don't demand it.  Even the king would see the stupidity in such a demand.

If it isn't available but can be imported make the demand take a year and a half to lapse.  That way the residents have time to request it from the caravan, and receive it.

If it is available, keep it the way it is now.

P.S. Oh and keep him from banning the export of bracelets when the merchants are already running off the map at top speed with 50 of them.  That just frikkin happened to me.  At least let you intercept them.

[ February 06, 2008: Message edited by: Greiger ]

[Anatzenko]

Excuse me but newbie question. Isn't there sand on everymap? once the wee buggers walk around sand is formed on most surfaces...     (please don't hit me)

[Trorbes]

quote:Originally posted by Anatzenko:
<STRONG>Excuse me but newbie question. Isn't there sand on everymap? once the wee buggers walk around sand is formed on most surfaces...     (please don't hit me)</STRONG>

Not all locations have sand, and sand comes in a variety of colors which I believe make different types of glass.

[Alaern]

quote: At least let you intercept them.

I can already see twenty of your military dwarves racing to the edge of the map to stop elven merchants and the subsequent exchange of loads of bracelet for a pair of Xvery expensive sockX. And then the aforementioned bracelets will lie on the edge of the map, because noone will care enough to bring them back one at a time.

 

quote: Can't afford to loose your smith? Train up two.

On a map with no magma at all? Please. One is enough pain, because even the cheapest items will take at least 2 logs, and for a legendary you need... what, 300 items made? Takes years and years, and to lose him to some pesky noble from who-knows-where... I hate it.

To cut long story short: In dwarf fortress communism builds you!

P.S. the King is welcome to send whatever military he sees fit. My soldiers won't mind some extra equipment, even if it's stained with blood.

[ February 06, 2008: Message edited by: Alaern ]

[Puzzlemaker]

Aha, you would be right... IF the Noble to Peasant ratio wasn't so HIGH.  You can get up to how many nobles?  like, 5, for a meager 100 dwarves?  Thats 1 noble per 20 dwarves.  Thats ridiculous.

[Alaern]

5? Bah, 5 is what you get at 20 or 30 dwarf milestone. At 100 you'll also have count, consort, tax collector, dungeon master and hammerer, bringing total number to 10. And philosopher is 11-th, though he hardly counts, since he's mostly concerned with altering prices and consuming lavish meals. So real noble-peasant ratio is more like 1 to 10.
I belive we actually doing nobility a favor by killing their bretheren off.

[Skanky]

quote:Originally posted by aha:
<STRONG>Goblin sieges also put your military in severe risk - should we get rid of them too?</STRONG>

I have no qualms about putting goblins to the sword, either.  

[Puzzlemaker]

quote:Originally posted by Alaern:
<STRONG>5? Bah, 5 is what you get at 20 or 30 dwarf milestone. At 100 you'll also have count, consort, tax collector, dungeon master and hammerer, bringing total number to 10. And philosopher is 11-th, though he hardly counts, since he's mostly concerned with altering prices and consuming lavish meals. So real noble-peasant ratio is more like 1 to 10.
I belive we actually doing nobility a favor by killing their bretheren off.</STRONG>

Ah, yeah, I miscounted.  So yeah, the ratio is WAAAY off for them to be doling out punishments like that.  If every noble punished a dwarf at 100 population, 10% of the population would be incapacitated.  That's ridiculous.  I would have no problems with nobles if I had breathing room; as it is, if I don't do what they say, its crippling.