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Author Topic: Magma Moat  (Read 1575 times)

Spectre9000

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Magma Moat
« on: September 02, 2016, 09:54:14 am »

The question is not whether or not I should (Magma is always the answer), the question is more in line with can I? And the Question to which that answer is pertinent is can I build a magma moat around the edge of the map without killing my fps (I've started construction, but am unsure if I should pass the point of no return)?

Incidentally it's feeding out of a volcano.
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timotheos

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Re: Magma Moat
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2016, 10:13:41 am »

Build it anyway.
But you will get a fps hit while you fill it, due to flow. You'll also get a hit if you ever drain it for any reason, due to flow and then temperature checks as it cools down. You'll also have a slight fps hit as the volcano refills.
Depending on the size of the moat and where you tap the volcano you might have issues with the amount of magma available. So I'd suggest filling it in sections.
Once it's all built there should be no fps issues though.
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Spectre9000

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Re: Magma Moat
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2016, 10:25:58 am »

The magma cools down outside of the volcano in the moat?
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timotheos

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Re: Magma Moat
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2016, 10:32:39 am »

No, but magma heats the walls (they say warm rock wall). Then if the magma goes away the wall cools down. Regularly changing wall and floor heat is almost as bad as flowing water/magma when it comes to fps.

If you look at the pump stack designs on the wiki the magma version had to be redesigned to sort out the heating/cooling fps hit.
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Sanctume

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Re: Magma Moat
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2016, 11:00:27 am »

This is where dfhack helps.

Make a backup of your save. 
Use fast dwarf to quickly channel the moat around the map.
Autodump to clear extra boulders.
Use liquids to fill the moat with 7/7 magma. 
Let it run and do its temperature calc.

Then observe if there is a significant fps hit.

Fleeting Frames

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Re: Magma Moat
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2016, 11:27:03 am »

If you do it literally against embark edge, the magma will drain faster off map than you can refill it from volcano (and you can't get caravans/invasions/migrants since magma on their spawn point).

Otherwise...You can't build it without any FPS drop, but that is more of a question of should not can :P

For filling it in sections(to avoid evaporation), use raised wooden drawbridges with magma-unsafe mechanisms. Once magma has filled up one section, mark and unmark it for deconstruction, and magma will flow to fill the next section. Otherwise, you may run into "I can't", depending on the setup of your magma feeding and size of your moat(note that 1-wide moat can just be jumped over by even pets).

(You could also channel from above with scaffolding, of course.)
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 11:29:15 am by Fleeting Frames »
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Spectre9000

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Re: Magma Moat
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2016, 01:00:54 pm »

I was finishing up one side of the map about to do another large section across the bottom...

"The dead walk. Hide while you can!"

The undead now rule the surface. 60+ strong and untiring, relentless in their pursuit of the desolation of the living. We have abandoned the surface. All whom come near beware.

This is not the end of Archcraft for we have prepared. Tirelessly have we toiled and built by blood, sweat, and tears. We have farms. We have water. We have magma. We have iron and soon steel. We shall not fall to such a trivial setback as losing the surface for we are Dwarves, and perseverance is our birthright. Now there is but only path open to us. The endless stone beneath us. We will conquer the deepest, darkest regions of the world, for we are born of the stone, live in the stone, and in death return to the stone. It is where we are at home, and so those necromancers whom think us broken shall see us return stronger than ever once we have conquered these depths and claimed their spoils.

Never forget; we are Dwarves, and by Armok we will not be bested.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: Magma Moat
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2016, 01:17:57 pm »

No for reals, dump some magma on them
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FACT I: Post note art is best art.
FACT II: Dunamisdeos is a forum-certified wordsmith.
FACT III: "All life begins with Post-it notes and ends with Post-it notes. This is the truth! This is my belief!...At least for now."
FACT IV: SPEECHO THE TRUSTWORM IS YOUR FRIEND or BEHOLD: THE FRUIT ENGINE 3.0

Spectre9000

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Re: Magma Moat
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2016, 01:29:10 pm »

Unfortunately, my entrance had not yet been magmatized and has lots of fortifications surrounding the stair entrance. Plus hard to drop magma on them when they're staying above ground. I'd need to have a sacrifice.

Edit: I now suspect a vampire among us...
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Magma Moat
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2016, 02:06:30 pm »

Your dorfs just have to stay indoors until the undead leave (they'll stay either one season or one year). Thus, the vampire is probably the bigger annoyance.
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Spectre9000

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Re: Magma Moat
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2016, 03:48:05 pm »

Vampire seems to have been a false alarm. I had mysterious deaths in beds, and wasn't sure if they were always found drained of blood or not. No deaths after a rather extensive witch vampire hunt.

However, digging down has proven... disheartening... the three cavern layers are seperated by only a handful of levels to the 2nd and 1 level to the third it seems (if they're not actually connected). At the very bottom of the last cavern is the magma sea, and I've very few magma-safe layers and those are filled by caverns... The siege is still ongoing and the struggle continues.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 04:01:59 pm by Spectre9000 »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Magma Moat
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2016, 05:19:24 pm »

Dorfs (and animals) CAN die of old age. The yearly culling happens each turn of the year. Normally you don't get migrants that are close to maximum age (at least not if they're void dorfs), but I guess "real" dorfs can be old.
Vampires and old age are the only things I know of that kills dorfs in their sleep (I'm not counting a stupid dorf who decided going to sleep outdoors on the surface was a wise move: he was killed by the only hydra any of my fortresses have encountered).
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Spectre9000

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Re: Magma Moat
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2016, 05:40:40 pm »

So the siege is over, but now I'm trying to mop up, and there's a giant hedgehog skeleton that appears to be missing everything, and my hammerlords can't hit it. It seems to be winning one teeth (yes, one teeth) at a time.

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Spectre9000

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Re: Magma Moat
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2016, 06:45:37 pm »

Well, I've lost 3 hammerlords to it, and another is about to die cause it won't stop fighting and go eat. Had to disband the squads to get them to stop fighting, but this one just won't leave. This is pretty retarded. Legendary in everything.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: Magma Moat
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2016, 06:53:09 pm »

dfhack some magma on top of it. Or some water if you are in a freezing biome.
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FACT I: Post note art is best art.
FACT II: Dunamisdeos is a forum-certified wordsmith.
FACT III: "All life begins with Post-it notes and ends with Post-it notes. This is the truth! This is my belief!...At least for now."
FACT IV: SPEECHO THE TRUSTWORM IS YOUR FRIEND or BEHOLD: THE FRUIT ENGINE 3.0
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