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[Gwolfski]

That iss way advanced.  we need to stick to the basics _{(not unlike my s key right now)} The fort with devices and machinery seems like a good idea.

[Sanctume]

Basics, hmm.

1. Dig down stairs, dig up stairs, dig rooms.
or
1. Channel down, dig rooms.

I think my problem is I like flat embarks, so I don't immediately dig a tunnel and get a roofed entry.
So, above ground construction is more advanced that basic.  Got it.

Machinery would be advanced too. 

Idea. I think a jump to early Wood Burner, Smelter, Metalsmith's Forge and make military would be a good stand alone "save" tutorial.  More intermediate that advanced maybe?  This can even cover creating militia commander, uniform setup, set barracks, and training.
With plenty 100 booze, 20 meat, the rest of the embark can focus on ores (bronze), bit coals, and ready made backpacks and waterskins.

Another idea is embark with 1 hunter, 1 marksdwarf, 1 butcher/tanner/leather worker.  Then focus on equipment making from bones and leather.  This should help demonstrate the behavior of hunter, and a military to order to kill the hunter's targets too, and setup archery range as well.

My favorite idea is hemp farming, but that depends on a biome with hemp plants read for gathering.  Then build above ground farm, below a roofed building.  Then show case the usefulness of hemp: oil, soap, thread, clothing, and papers.

[Shalax]

Oh man, this is tedious stuff.  Or at least the OCD and Perfectionist in me, have restarted 2x last night.
And basically abandon the attempt when df.exe stop responding sometime after mid summer as I did not feel like re-doing the progress of 11 slow dwarfs.

Now as far as "series of states" that is basically 1 save upload for each "state" of the tutorial.  That is simply too much, for few "gains."

So there is logistics, and logical check points for such save state.

Some thoughts.  I mean, these are in the wiki already, right?

1. "Start Fortress" Upload a world-gen that is ready to start fortress.
1.1 Include tutorial step-by-step on choosing the embark location.  This includes World Map, Region Map, and Local Map.
1.2 Include UHKM local map resize, and uhkm local map movements. 
1.3 Include descriptions for each tabs: F1 F2 F3+ biomes, Neighbors, Elevation, Topology view?
1.4 And then Embark / Prepare Journey, which leads to more tutorial on Embark Points, Embark Items, Embark Skills, Fortress Name, Group Name, and probably Symbol.

Now I've seen plenty of videos use the default embark profiles to move things along faster.  But at the same time, there are plenty of tweaks one can do.  I actually spend some time checking the stats of the starting 7 dwarfs and write an outline of their roles, usually in the format of: 
"Nick Name" First Name, Last Name, Custom Profession Title
(dream): fam = family, mw = masterwork, skill, art, rule = rule the world.
gender orientation: m = male, f = female, a = asextual, mm / ff = homosexual, mf = bisexual.
key personality.  compassion, duty, curious, prowess, brave, CHS=can handle stress, brawl
key preference. steel / plat, weapons, armor, furniture, or nil = no item preference.

And I can't quite convey how I process the info above and determine that Urist will be a good Military, or Noble, or whatever.

I also find it tedious to wait for 7 dwarfs to construct 2z tall above ground made of logs, while waiting for 1 wood cutter.
Which makes me start thinking either go dfhack fastdwarf 1 1
or use DFTools and embark to 40 dwarfs.
Which defeats the purpose of a tutorial.

I guess, but i kind of meant it to be having a functional fort they can run while they figure things out. So they can experience the game and learn it at the same time. Not too easy, but it isn't throwing you in the frying pan right away

This is more or less what i meant. A basic fort, a stable food income, and dorfs capable of doing stuff
That iss way advanced.  we need to stick to the basics _{(not unlike my s key right now)} The fort with devices and machinery seems like a good idea.

More or less what i meant; a basic fort with a stable food income, depot, etc. The basics. No turing-complete logic computers or such... Yet

[Sanctume]

I would envision this then.

1. a save file "Embark Day 1" uploaded in the dffd. That has the starting 7 with various skills enabled, as well as embark items used for whatever objective.
2. a save file "Objective 1 Complete" that completes the objectives. 

So, in theory, a new player can start playing save 1 and build the objectives in the tutorial.
or the new-ish player loads save 2 and can experiment on other things, since the objective 1 made them somewhat self-sufficient.

If that is the case, what are the objectives?
1. food and drink sources.
2. dine hall / tavern for citizens only, food/drink stock pile.
3. bedrooms for some population capacity, 20?
4. workshops: carpenter only is enough.
5. trade depot? so make spiked wooden balls for the dwarf caravan only. or maybe just lavish meals.

But then, this needs to be narrowed down to what source for food/drink?
- farm plots?
- gather plants?
- gather tree zones?
- hunt / butcher for meat?
- fishing?
- pasture animals, milk, cheese, butcher?
- egg nest boxes?

[Gwolfski]

I have been inspired.

Gwolfski works secretly

[Sanctume]

*adds a lever that floods the outpost and drowns everyone else with a note "DO NOT PULL"*

[Fleeting Frames]

Now the idea ! We could make a Wiki Fortress !
I believe it would be possible to get a basic fortress built on, and in this fortress, replicate many useful devices. Some very well know (pump stacks, water reactors, garbage dumps), and other less (honeymoon rooms, minecart 1x1 stockpiles, pressure plate).
But these devices would be largely Noted, with names and such, and whatever the creator feels.
Basically, the whole fort would be documented, and any player could add one of his devices to it, and explain it.

I approve of this idea, with a small tweak: Also upload and document things to Dwarf Fortress Map Archieve, so that one doesn't have to download the fortress and open up DF to see it.

[Shalax]

This sounds like a plan. With this possibility, we'll be able to get new players to figure out how to do stuff better and therefore stay in the community - like me. It's all good in theory reading from the wiki after all, but when it comes to it; practical experience is better
Edit: Once this fort is up, should we add it to the Wiki?

[Sanctume]

Definitely with feedback, it may be wiki worthy.

But I already see an issue as I do not like playing vanilla.
So if I make something like this, it will be 43.03 LNP compatible; and not 43.05.

And even if I do play on 43.05, I would change the tilesets manually.

[Gwolfski]

Definitely with feedback, it may be wiki worthy.

But I already see an issue as I do not like playing vanilla.
So if I make something like this, it will be 43.03 LNP compatible; and not 43.05.

And even if I do play on 43.05, I would change the tilesets manually.

Beginners wont need to use dfhack. 43.03 saves are compatible with 43.05. most popular tilesets come with an installer.

[Sanctume]

re-played a nice flat forest embarked.
I am not happy with above ground, seems slowish for a tutorial.

I'm going to a re-gen a world until I find flat area with hemp :p

[gchristopher]

Newbies (and anyone who's not a masochist) need Therapist, so that's a pretty compelling vote for 43.03.

For a flat area anywhere, that's the easiest DFHack fix! Use Lua and set the elevations.

From lua:

Code: [Select]

print(df.global.world.world_data.region_details[0].elevation[x][y]);
0, 0 is the upper-left.

and:

Code: [Select]

df.global.world.world_data.region_details[0].elevation[x][y] = desired_elevation_here;
If you want a perfectly flat embark, the area 1 square outside your embark location also need to be the same elevation, or else you will get slopes on the edges.

For example:

Code: [Select]

for ii = 4,8 do
  for jj = 4,8 do
    df.global.world.world_data.region_details[0].elevation[ii][jj] = 128;
  end
end
will make a 5x5 flat rectangle, perfect for a 3x3 embark. Adjust for the actual location you want and the correct elevation for the area.

The only catch is if there's a river, you'll need to think about its elevation, too. This is probably the easiest and safest pre-embark modification.

I promise I'm working on a guide. It's just a huge task for free time.

p.s. Does hemp work correctly for everything in 43.03? I can't remember if you need Modest Mod fixes for it.

[Sanctume]

Cool, I'll play with the lua next time I embark elsewhere. 

I've seen hemp oil, soap, thread, cloth, slurry/paper, and seeds work ok in 43.03.
It's just unpredictable.  Wiki says any Temperate biome.  But I rarely find them in temperate forest.

With the 3 replays I did tonight to get familiar with how I want to setup my fort, I realize that my starting 7 do not get idle time. 
I even managed to have 7 rooms furnishes before summer, but they only auto claim a room when they need to go to sleep.

Pretty neat to suspend jobs and see them idle and hangout in the tavern listening and reciting poetry.

[gchristopher]

On one OCD "do everything" fort, I did find a way to change a seed to another seed in the same category. (Standard Plants/Garden Plants/Crop Plants) I wasn't brave enough to try creating units or items out of thin air, but the changed seeds worked perfectly. It let me get plants that weren't growing locally and nobody would trade.

I wish I'd had a more noble purpose than making sure every dwarf wore a giant elephant leather loincloth (leather from trade), black silk facemask, leather high boots, and had plentiful hemp... but yeah, stoned S&M Dwarf Fortress was the theme. Also they had potatos because I could imagine it was making vodka. That was a weird fort.

Anyway, lua. Start by selecting a seed that's from the Crop Plants category. (on the wiki) I'm pretty sure this is how I got it to work:

Then in lua:

Code: [Select]

i = dfhack.gui.getSelectedItem()
printall(i)
i.mat_index = something_else
The indices of the various seed types seem to mostly be in the order they appear on the wiki, which is helpful. They'll only work if you change the mat_index to another seed of the same category, but this will work to get you any seed you can't find normally. There might be temporary snafus with stockpiling them if they end up in a mixed bag of seeds, I'm not sure.

Also, surface biome restrictions still apply that determine which seeds can be grown where. If you have the seed, but don't see it as an option to plant for a surface farm plot, that's probably the reason.

[Sanctume]

The "do everything" fort is what I think making a tutorial fort "feel tedious." 

I think my issue is that I do spend time looking over the starting 7, and plan what roles they fit in.  So instead of select profile and embark, I spend time checking dwarf details and planning.

As for the tutorial part, I feel confident showing whatever topic as if I am doing a succession fort type approach.

I mean, there is always the wiki's do this, then this, then this.  But I think it would be fun for me to link the tasks and steps with some kind of story / plot / role playing.  Make screen shots and give context to the step-by-steps.

Anyway, when migrants show up, I'm torn to whether spend time and plan their new roles; or just say f-it, they are now peasant haulers or recruits; until a project needs more.

Or, a more cheesy way is to set pop-cap to 20 maybe, then embark with 20 using DFTools, and even tweak the gender, orientations to 10 marriage capable couples; buff all their stats to 2500/5000 so it is not like fastdwarf, but not so slow either. 

But population aside, the tutorial portion still comes down to narrowing the tasks to objectives so there is direction or list of things to build. 

I find myself doing 3 or more things at once, that when summer arrives, some are partially done only because there are only 7 dwarfs working all the needed jobs.