Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[TempAcc]

AUGH, so many avatar-less names, its like a sea of colourless bald babies, I can only tell people apart by way of slight visual deformities and slight differences in the noises they make.

Er, they can't exist without each other. It's about division of labor.

Males: Do the risky things that can expend your energy, get you wounded, infected by disease, and/or killed.
Females: Do the less energy-intensive things that expose you to less risk of death, so you can bear kids this year.

Sexual dimorphism in humans reflects this a LITTLE bit (and traits we think of as Male or Female), but we've not been living in societies for long enough for it to go to extremes. And we're not tournament species really, so our dimorphism is way less than in other species.

Female population count is the maximum number of children that can be born to that tribe/settlement/society that year. Keeping women alive, and risking men, makes sense, when you're struggling against mortality all the time. Anyway, that's why genders exist, and why modern medical advances, bathing and hygiene, etc. make them obsolete.

Heard the argument before, would be ok with hearing it again since I never saw your take on it, but am also ok on keeping the gender thread from being repetitive, a feat we have yet to achieve, I guess.
I can see the reasoning there, but I still do think there's enough natural elements (IE not born purely out of human behavior or environmental aspects) behind gender. The differences we observe in humans can also be observed in most higher mammals. Yes, one could argue that the gender divide is born out of stuff like preservation of females = preservation of the species, since females are generally more valuable due to being able to give birth, and to perpetuate a species you basically only need one male and lots of females. However, since that is something that arises from the fact that females can give birth, and that is a natural factor, then gender could be thought as a consequence of said natural factor, and thus natural itself.

PS: I guess my preferences are very similar to yours, altough I do have a specific preference for people that aren't terribly taller than me, for both genders. I generally like people of my size or smaller, and given that I'm not the tallest person ever, THAT CAN SOMETIMES POSE A PROBLEM. ^{BUT I CAN DEAL WITH IT BECAUSE I'M ACTUALY A TENTACLE MONSTER}
I'M NOT INTO FAT PEOPLE THOUGH, BUT THATS MOSTLY BECAUSE I'M A JERK. I DO APRECIATE THE TASTE OF THEIR FLESH, HOWEVER.

[smjjames]

@TempAcc: Tawa's, Cthulhu's, MrRoboto's, and ispil's avatars show up fine for me, maybe something's wrong with your browser?

[Neonivek]

I mean I have no avatar... But that is my Avatar.

[TempAcc]

Lord, deliver me from the faceless ones.

[Neonivek]

So I am ticked off. (Not from anyone here)

So, when was the last time you were privileged?

[Starver]

So, when was the last time you were privileged?

5th April, 1923, when I breathed my last breath as the 5th Earl of Carnarvon. Nine months later, I was born once more, but this time to an unwed mother who was 'temporarily' residing in a Glasgow workhouse.  I bounced back, the next lifetime, but have not yet gained again the heady heights of aristocracy...   Ah well, you win some, you lose some.  Here's hoping for the next circuit on the everchanging rollercoaster(/occasionally watersplash) of Fate!


(In other words: I have no clue what to say to this, but I'm feeling I need to be whimsical, to balance a bit of a rant that I just made elsewhere.)

[Sheb]

The mother is the one the baby comes out of.  The father is how the baby was inside the mother in the first place.

Orphanage and adoption as well as divorce and remarriage make this more complicated.

So a female doctor who practice IVF is a father? :p

[Kansa]

So I am ticked off. (Not from anyone here)

So, when was the last time you were privileged?

Awareness of privilege is only really going to come after something changes to take it away.

You aren't an evil person for having it but everyone does have it in some respect and I think it's an important thing to realise to try and understand other people.

This doesn't completely apply to me any more as I've been going through some confusing stuff :p. But for the most part of my life I could go into the same bathroom that matched what I thought my gender identity was. It's quite a small example but one I only realised after I started questioning my own gender. There's also some other things like I was born into a family that's quite well off.

There are some people who use it stupidly, but I think trying to understand it is important for understanding other people and the hardships they go through.

[Neonivek]

So I am ticked off. (Not from anyone here)

So, when was the last time you were privileged?

There are some people who use it stupidly, but I think trying to understand it is important for understanding other people and the hardships they go through.

By some you mean the vast majority of its use. It is used as a nebulous thing.

Because whenever someone tells you to check your privilege they do not know you, they can only make broad strokes. They don't know your struggles, the things you have to deal with, or what things you even agree with. In fact the last point is a big one, they are assuming to be mind readers and know exactly what is and isn't important to you.

---

Actually checking your privilege is kind of a flawed system when I think about it. It isn't about understanding other people, "Walk a mile in someone else's shoes" it isn't about Empathy. You are supposed to try to understand someone else and through that lens or mirror see what it is about yourself that is so advantaged.

Yet the CYP system eliminates that step... on purpose. It was always terrible and was always about being an Evil Person.

You aren't an evil person for having it

Your right you aren't an evil person but
-1) You do not have the right to speak, except to echo
-2) You do not have the right of aid
-3) You do not have the right of a platform

You are a criminal, you are evil. You just aren't "Evil". Which is why I think so many people take it that way... But I am just bringing it up because it requires HUUUUGE ASSUMPTIONS about the person.

To the extent where even the most disadvantaged dregs of society or even outright victims... Are "Privileged" because of nebulous advantages that are not quantifiable as to that person's life experience.

[alway]

So I am ticked off. (Not from anyone here)

So, when was the last time you were privileged?

I got my current job through a connection I made during my last job, in social circles not everybody realistically has access to.

At my last job, a highly qualified programmer was denied a job specifically because they were transgender. For an opening which was both in desperate need of filling and which took months to find another qualified candidate for. A fact so banal and uninterestingly normal it was simply chatted about by the individual responsible for doing so as if it were the weather. So, not having companies turn me down for no damn reason definitely counts. Particularly in a capitalist system where unemployment = death.

Before that, I went to a top 10 university in my field; funded in part by the government, in part by the university, and in part from a 529 plan with well over $10k in it (probably several times that amount, but it was never really a low enough number for me to need to care about specifics, aside from it not being enough for a masters). Also supplemented a by jobs I got very specifically through networking with people in the university.

In highschool, I completed a 2 year degree through the post-secondary options my state had, entirely for free. This also gave higher level coursework than was available in the highschool, as well as free time to do programming on my own time freed up from a usual highschool schedule. Which itself started even earlier, when my parents bought me intro programming books in middleschool.

All that leaves out the dozen or more little things that fed into and enabled all those listed.

A more apt question is: when wasn't I? Cause that's what privilege looks like. Not some particular event, but a series of things building on one another over the course of a lifetime, one following the next in a completely logical progression where opportunities not afforded to others are able to be taken and built upon. Pretending everyone starts out on equal footing in all they do is intellectually dishonest, as is the entire 'meritocracy' lie people like me tend to build up on top of that in order to feel superior. tldr version, this: http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate

[Neonivek]

Pretending everyone starts out on equal footing in all they do is intellectually dishonest, as is the entire 'meritocracy' lie people like me tend to build up on top of that in order to feel superior.

Yes, that is right... It is almost like "Check your privilege" is completely bananas and fictitious.

Because it relies on the idea that people of a certain race of gender have the same footing. That they all have access or denial to the same privileges. As well as boiling down all privilege to gender and race and orientation rather then opportunity and social standing.

[Kansa]

There are some things I can never understand though and that's where I think it's important. I'm not ever going to understand what it's like to be a black person or a muslim or any number of things. So I don't think it's really fair for me to speak like I do know what it's like.

Privilege is not good for vast judgements about someone, it is however good to realise when you are talking about a certain subject. If I came into a conversation where I had never lived with it and start telling people that have that their experiences are wrong I would expect people to tell me to shut up. Just as if I went to a chemistry lecture and said that everything there was wrong. Sometimes it's better just to listen.

Not everyone in the same race or gender or anything have the same experiences and as I said before it's not good to have it as a sliding scale of worthiness. But it's important to realise that there are some things that I am never going to experience just because of the way I was born and it's better to let those people talk on that subject instead of me

[Neonivek]

But it's important to realise that there are some things that I am never going to experience just because of the way I was born and it's better to let those people talk on that subject instead of me

If we are talking about personal experiences you are somewhat correct, no one can experience something for you and you are the best advocate for said experiences. Empathy suggests that there is leeway but it is a decent rule of thumb for most situations.

If we are talking about a particular subject, one that personally affected you, then the answer is emphatically no. This is where the "Check your Privilege" because caustic for not only shutting down criticism but it perpetuates a sense of victimhood.

If I am talking about how I was shot on the subway, Only "I" could talk about how it felt to be shot, even other people who were shot didn't have "My" experience. I am not, however, a expert on gun violence, victimization, or a psychologist NOR is my viewpoint a collective viewpoint. When you extend my experience outside of a personal experience you are creating problems.

Finally just because I said I was shot and it felt a certain way it doesn't mean that you must take my personal account. I might be lying, I might be mistaken, I might have come to the wrong conclusions, my experience could be extremely niche. As well how much people value my Point of View is up to them as well.

Sure, you could say that being homeless is easy and contradict an actual homeless person. You would be wrong and people would be bound to point that out, but the way you don't handle it is to say "Hey, that homeless person had it rough, your privilege disavows you from speaking". (Still remember that guy who as an experiment was homeless for a day and said it was easy)

Second Finally.  The point of speaking of your experiences is to relate them to other people. They hear what you are saying, they ask questions, and they come to their own conclusions, conclusions that they might tell other people. What "Check your Privilege" wants is for you to take their conclusions and not to ask these questions.

[Kansa]

Remember this is just my view on it, as I've said before people are overzealous in this area sometimes.

I don't really see it as stopping you from completely speaking in that area. In the gun example it's more like people denying that you got shot at all, it's not helpful to the situation doesn't add to the conversation and you are still going to bleed out despite them denying it.

Saying being a homeless person is easy does not add to the conversation either and doesn't help the situation at hand. If they actually asked legitimate questions I would agree with you, but if they just keep denying what is really the point of having them as a voice anymore about this person's suffering.

If you don't believe in global warming you aren't going to be a valuable voice in the conversation about how to stop it

[Neonivek]

In the gun example it's more like people denying that you got shot at all, it's not helpful to the situation doesn't add to the conversation and you are still going to bleed out despite them denying it.

No one is trying to stop me from getting medical attention and my bleeding wound is pretty good evidence.

If you don't believe in global warming you aren't going to be a valuable voice in the conversation about how to stop it

If you don't believe in global warming there is a sizable body of evidence set against you. No one needs to shut you down.

As well even if we ignore that it suggests we should shut down dissenters (Intellectual Inbreeding hurray!)... Someone who doesn't believe in global warming can still have very valid points on environmental protection, pollution standards, economic concerns AND can offer a valuable insight that you will not get from a zealous supporter of global warming.