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[Rolepgeek]

There are no identical twins with different genders. They always came from a different sperm, because sperm is sexed. There are male and female sperm, that's what differentiates things.

Twins of opposite gender are always fraternal twins, i.e. two eggs and two sperm. There might be some exception, but it'd be the "medical freak show" type scenario.

Pretty much the only way you'd get the case of "Identical twins with different gender" is the extremely rare hypothetical scenario (so rare I don't know if it's ever happened), where you had identical male twins, but one suffered from congenital adrenal hyperplasia, while the other didn't, for some reason.

Pretty sure they're talking about genetically identical twins where one is trans.
Which I imagine is a pretty contentious issue.

Also if that scenario is the one where one twin got XY and the other just got X, yes, it has happened. Fewer than 10 reported instances, however.

[ECrownofFire]

So since there are trans people here, I'll ask a question that has perplexed me for ages.

What is dysphoria? For instance, what does it feel like?

As mentioned, it's rather hard to explain, but it's also highly individual. For me, one part of it is discomfort with my physical self, a strong dislike for my masculine features, things like my facial hair, relatively masculine face, broader shoulders, height, anything really. The severity and therefore what I feel bad about varies, essentially based on how "picky" I am. For example, my height isn't that big of a deal. While I'd certainly be more comfortable being a bit shorter, at 5'8" I'm not that tall for a woman. My facial hair is pretty bad, I can't go long without thinking about it. My voice is also really awful, I've always hated it and it's just awful. I'm not going into genital dysphoria but that also really sucks.

The second part of it is essentially how society and other people view me. Whenever people call me by female pronouns or other words (e.g. "miss"), it just feels a lot more right than "sir" and such. It's a hard feeling to describe, but it's as if people looked at you and assumed you were one thing when you're really not. I don't know if there's really another similar way to describe it. It almost feels like I'm being insulted, in a way? I mean there isn't anything wrong with being male or female or whatever, but it just doesn't feel right.

Oh and re: the twin discussion. They said gender, not sex. There have certainly been many identical twins where one was trans and the other wasn't. Though there's also a very strong tendency for them both to be identical in that way as well.

[Starver]

There are no identical twins with different genders. They always came from a different sperm, because sperm is sexed. There are male and female sperm, that's what differentiates things.

There are various "Disorders of Sex Development" that, in an individual, can create an intersex of apparentsex=/=chromasomalsex, to one or other degree. While rare, I wouldn't put it past a 'well defined' DSD happening so that one of a pair of nominally XYed identical twins develops in utero as female-looking.

And then there's chimeric mechanisms (not unknown in humans, mothers having failed genetic maternity tests due to blood/skin being dissimilar genetics to their own ovaries), which could make one twin's gonads different from the other as parts of the origonal 'dizygotic' twinning, but significant cross-over has made the non-sexual aspects of one twin's appearance be a monozygotic copy of the other, awaiting only the local wash of development hormones to enact the vital differences, but leaving surprisingly identical-looking¹ allotypes of each other.

But it's only very recently that this could have been fully diagnosed, compared with the whole of human history where even solo 'anomolies' have been mostly hidden from view (if not made famous to the extent of being now legendary and thus practically mythical), and I couldn't guess where to go poking about for case studies (or the lack, thereof) upon which to base this hypothetical (or reduce expectations of its possible undocumented existence).


¹ Of course, brother/sister fraternal twins are produced from one father and one mother under near-identical in-utero conditions, so maybe power(25%, n) of the time (assuming no undue dominance or random development switch of one of them in the amniotic environment) at least until puberty one could imagine a everything-but-genitals-being-near-identical-looking pair of twins, too.

[Catmeat]

Im a Barbarian lol.
So the rib is trans what is the fruit?

[Neonivek]

Im a Barbarian lol.
So the rib is trans what is the fruit?

While trees often have a gender...

I am not sure what gender to apply to the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

But... probably truly genderless.

[Loud Whispers]

We should ask the plants how they're feeling. We won't get an answer, but the plants will feel better

[Solifuge]

Hey, quick reminder for folks using them interchangably. "Gender" isn't a formal or polite way of saying "Sex". Gender is a social performance or a role, while Sex is a body type or collection of average physical traits. They totally different things, yo.

"Do not you Jews seek to understand the teachings of my Father, the LORD your God? Countless years ago he so said to Abraham, your father, and his sons in Barnea: 'adams ribs arent trans you dips why do you do this to me'."

:Y

[Neonivek]

Hey, quick reminder for folks using them interchangably. "Gender" isn't a formal or polite way of saying "Sex". Gender is a social performance or a role, while Sex is a body type or collection of average physical traits. They totally different things, yo.

I just forget which is which a lot of the time... and remembering the difference is USUALLY unimportant.

Since remembering or acknowledging the existence someone's sex is usually a faux pas if it is different.

Meaning socially only Gender matters, even if that discussion is scientific and technical.

Which means the distinction is completely unimportant because only Gender matters. Even if we are talking about a disease that only kills men, sex doesn't matter.

---

In fact I am predicting a movement in the future to remove the word "Trans" and "Transsexual" from the English language.

Though I will say I don't feel too strongly about that happening. Given that, frankly, we managed to not turn Trans into a "swear word". (though I think Tranny is an insult)

With Gay turning into a swear word you weren't allowed to say... THEN reversing and being ok to say again.

[Solifuge]

To me, if someone went through operations to change their body, their Sex is now different, since their body is different. Similarly, and not to overshare, but after hormones and shit, I consider my sex to be Trans-Female (or Intersex, and not Female or Male) given the state of my body. And if my friends pointed it out or asked about it, I wouldn't consider it a faux pas. Some people are interested more in a Body Type than in someone's Gender too, and for them my Sex is extremely relevant to whether they want to date me.

Maybe different people feel differently than I do about it? But I'm pretty chill about the whole thing.

[Neonivek]

I'll drop the subject since it will create a blackhole and no one wants a discussion on "Can you change sex?" given the contentiousness of the issue.

Maybe different people feel differently than I do about it? But I'm pretty chill about the whole thing.

It is more like being sensitive.

Like calling someone fat... They are fat... Please stop bringing it up.

Which given that a lot of trans people put a lot of work into their personas... It hurts all the more.

THEN... There are the crazy people... But that is a whole other weirdness.

[Solifuge]

Ah, yeah. This probably is a difference of experience, then. Even in that example, my overweight friends and family members will mostly just straight-up say they're overweight when it's relevant. Even if it's something they want to change, shame isn't something that has to come attached to that. Only the shame we choose to attach to it.

[Neonivek]

Mind you the OTHER part of their sensitivity if I had to guess...

Is experience...

Nothing makes you more overly sensitive then experience...

So get someone who constantly has to defend their gender to people... and yeah they won't enjoy someone bringing up their sex... (And given the community I hung out with... Yeah... Bad experiences was... common)

[Reelya]

There are no identical twins with different genders. They always came from a different sperm, because sperm is sexed. There are male and female sperm, that's what differentiates things.

There are various "Disorders of Sex Development" that, in an individual, can create an intersex of apparentsex=/=chromasomalsex, to one or other degree. While rare, I wouldn't put it past a 'well defined' DSD happening so that one of a pair of nominally XYed identical twins develops in utero as female-looking.

I know it's theoretically possible. But like I said, that would be so rare that it's probably never happened. First up, you'd need identical twins (about a 1 in 300 chance). Then, you'd need that they have congenital adrenal hyperplasia (about 1 in 20,000). So the chance so far is sounding like 1 per 6 million births, and I'm assuming if one twin has CAH, the other twin has CAH.

And then, on top of that, you'd need that one twin develops normally male, the other twin develops normally female, despite having identical DNA and an identical prenatal environment, whereas the sheer bulk of CAH sufferers have ambiguous genitalia. Call that like a 1% chance for each kid (almost all CAH sufferers have ambiguous genitalia) for our hypothetical, and you're looking at around a 1/10000 chance of BOTH children matching but somehow opposite despite the same DNA and environment. Which means an aggregate chance of around 1 in 60 billion, or ... on the scale of the number of people that have ever lived.

[Catmeat]

We dont mean to be insensitive its just most people have learnt language as a child and meanings applied after the fact is easy to look past or learn. Personally I dont give a fuck to learn; people are people and whats between your head and legs doesnt concern me or make my opinion of the person change, if im attracted to you I will tell you.
What happens after that also doesnt matter cause im sexy as fuck.. lol I wish.

I feel like everything Im saying is irrelevant. But it could be the apathenol I brewed up.

I love you guise

Reelya obviously stayed in school cause that hurt to read 

[Rolan7]

Maybe my recent "don't give a shit" is a product of recent life events. Attraction included, because I was basically disinterested in the entire mess.
Then my brother linked... uh... PG13, but probably NSFW...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mV-zPMBPuQ
>.<
>.o
O.O
ovo

Edit:
also this sexy villain straight out of Dr Horrible practically https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_SlAzsXa7E
also the garbage men in Goldfrapp's "Ride a White Horse" but that's just generic backup singers being sexy, albeit a bit dirty.