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[Antioch]

My general idea of it:
It needs updating for the modern day, and probably constant updates into the future, but so long as we have a capitalist society, they'll be needed.

The answer then, is not to solve for the problem of Copyright, but for the problem of capitalism.

Capitalism: Worst system we tried except for all the others.

[Frumple]

Big companies spend around 1.5 times as much on patent enforcement as on RnD.

And usually significantly more than either on marketing. Folks mumble about R&D costs but they're pretty obviously not what's mostly driving business's funding decisions.

Thing that pops up fairly often about similar or identical products on the market somehow removing a company's ability to profit or incentive to produce new goods is bupkis of the highest degree, too. Almost every market on the planet is flooded with available replacement or substitute goods, and it doesn't exactly slow business or the production of new goods down all that much. Businesses today know exactly how to leverage a substitute good or initial market introduction to make hella' dosh, and even little ones can manage it pretty well. It's bloody rare they actually need a monopoly to recoup R&D costs and a fair deal more besides.

And nah, we have better than capitalism. The whole mixed economy thing that lets capitalism deal with what it's good at (elastic goods that respond effectively to market forces, mostly), and state control handle the rest (healthcare, infrastructure, etc., etc.). Even the US, grand fellatrix of the market, uses that particular system. Pure capitalist systems tend to end poorly, very rapidly, unless they're limited to very specific subjects or kept under strict control.

[Salmeuk]

And nah, we have better than capitalism. The whole mixed economy thing that lets capitalism deal with what it's good at (elastic goods that respond effectively to market forces, mostly), and state control handle the rest (healthcare, infrastructure, etc., etc.). Even the US, grand fellatrix of the market, uses that particular system.

Wait, since when? Last time I checked US healthcare was inordinately expensive, even with the relatively recent implementation of obamacare. The absurd pricing seen in nearly every citizens average hospital visit hardly seems under control.

On topic, copyright is a very complicated system in today's society. This over-complication, with all the associated lawyers and rules and departments and precedents, prevents important changes from occurring in reasonable amounts of time. For instance, changing perceptions of how digital media can or should be used in the creation of other digital media (think about a youtube movie review with part of the movie shown, that then gets taken down for copyright infringement) are not reflected in the policing of the law. There are free-use copyright protections, but these are more often than not disregarded when a particular content provider is shut out due to automated claims systems. So not only are the laws archaic, but the parts of those laws that ARE relevant are often ignored, forgotten, or explained away as "just not feasible in today's technological society." Ridiculous!

I mean, this thread is not the place to learn about this subject. While your opinions are certainly interesting and relevant, you would hit the max character limit before you managed to even come close to explaining the subtleties. A couple of hours at your local library can really give you a better picture of today's implementation of copyright law, and a few more hours can net you a greater understanding of why that implementation is largely irrelevant to the newer generations.

If books aren't your thing, there are quite a few documentaries around. Like this one, which discusses sample-based music mashups and why they should have a right to exist.

And while it could be argued either way that capitalism is solely to blame for the worst of the copyright laws, I don't think anyone would disagree that the current implementation of them heavily favors the interests of those who can actually fight within the system. So, capitalists. Expensive lawyers and wasted time aren't all that big of a deal for our largest corporations, in fact a lot of them have in-house lawyers who literally have nothing better to do. For your average content producer there's no reasonable recourse for someone stealing your work and/or accusing you of theft, simply because it can destroy your life if you fail to win the case (and even if you do win, you won't always get everything paid for). That sort of imbalance is an example of uneven law enforcement, which is pretty antithetical to a functioning democracy. Not that we've had one of those for a loong time. . .

[Antioch]

Big companies spend around 1.5 times as much on patent enforcement as on RnD.

(...)

And nah, we have better than capitalism. The whole mixed economy thing that lets capitalism deal with what it's good at (elastic goods that respond effectively to market forces, mostly), and state control handle the rest (healthcare, infrastructure, etc., etc.). Even the US, grand fellatrix of the market, uses that particular system. Pure capitalist systems tend to end poorly, very rapidly, unless they're limited to very specific subjects or kept under strict control.

I actually wanted to add another paragraph saying basically this. But I do feel a regulated form of capitalism is the way to go.

[Frumple]

And nah, we have better than capitalism. The whole mixed economy thing that lets capitalism deal with what it's good at (elastic goods that respond effectively to market forces, mostly), and state control handle the rest (healthcare, infrastructure, etc., etc.). Even the US, grand fellatrix of the market, uses that particular system.

Wait, since when? Last time I checked US healthcare was inordinately expensive, even with the relatively recent implementation of obamacare. The absurd pricing seen in nearly every citizens average hospital visit hardly seems under control.

Since longer than either of us have been alive. Healthcare pricing is only one part of one of many systems, and even that has seen a degree of government interference for decades (Medicare et al, ferex).

Just because the implementation is kinda' shit in places doesn't mean it's not there. The US has been a mixed market economy for a pretty long time, if mostly with less state control than similar economies.

[Antioch]

One of the problems with with the current copyright/patent laws is that it "locks" ideas. There is somehow a premise that there is always only going to be 1 person who created something and all others merely copied that. However certain ideas are just very common solutions that almost instantly flow from the problems they solve. Lot's of ideas have been developed independently in multiple places however the current system does not acknowledge that in the slightest.


Creative lock would actually exist without copyright though. I think certain themes would have always been created even if the movies/books we now see as defining that theme didn't exist.

[alexandertnt]

One of the problems with with the current copyright/patent laws is that it "locks" ideas. There is somehow a premise that there is always only going to be 1 person who created something and all others merely copied that. However certain ideas are just very common solutions that almost instantly flow from the problems they solve. Lot's of ideas have been developed independently in multiple places however the current system does not acknowledge that in the slightest.

Ideas specifically are not copyrighted. Micky Mouse (A specific character) is copyrighted, "anthropomorphic mouse" (an idea/concept) is not.

If someone made a cartoon about an anthropomorphic mouse called Micky, its probably reasonable to assume they did just copy that. Likewise, an anthropomorphic rat called Mucky Mice probably was just copied.