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It sucks of course I would!

15 (16.7%)

It REEKS dear goodness! YES!

3 (3.3%)

It is more Grindtastic then a MMO! Yes

8 (8.9%)

They LIED TO ME! Yes

8 (8.9%)

I am a banana, no!

56 (62.2%)

Total Members Voted: 88

[Damiac]

They're not the peasants, they're the masses.  The ones with the numbers.  We're the tiny hardcore group that wants things that the masses with the money don't want. 

The hope is that the tastes of the new wave of casual gamers matures in some way, and they too get sick of microtransactions and pretty graphics with nothing behind them...

[miauw62]

lmao how can people even seriously say that games are going to shit when we've had a huge resurgence in niche indie games since like 2010.

"muh casuels runnin vidya ;~;" is pure bs. there's a small niche audience who thinks games are art, sure. sure, it's much more profitable to make games for the masses. but note that as long as people think games are art, they will make niche games for a niche audience.

and this is true for literally every form of art, ever? there are more music genres than pop, even if pop is the most popular. same for movies. same for TV series. same for anime. people don't just make games to make money. they make games because they want to make games.

[Egan_BW]

I'm not complaining about casuls, I'm complaining about peasants, there's a difference.

[Shadowlord]

I think that they weren't near ready for a release but Sony was pushing hard for it. Pretty much everything shows signs of heavy last-minute cuts and incomplete features.

*Grumbles about freakin peasants ruining gaming*

Ehhh it is a paradigm shift.

"Gamers" are not the primary market. We are secondary

So you think some people are "gamers" but not others even though they all play video games? Why so divisive?

[Salmeuk]

I think that they weren't near ready for a release but Sony was pushing hard for it. Pretty much everything shows signs of heavy last-minute cuts and incomplete features.

*Grumbles about freakin peasants ruining gaming*

Ehhh it is a paradigm shift.

"Gamers" are not the primary market. We are secondary

So you think some people are "gamers" but not others even though they all play video games? Why so divisive?

Do you not recognize the difference between a person that plays WoW 8 hours a day vs. some fratbro that plays FIFA 2k9 only when he's drinking?

Better yet, do you really think that the millions of people who have played Bejeweled could be called gamers? It's never a hard line, and of course there is overlap, but as far as generalizations go it's a fairly safe one to make. Hell, it's less about the game and more about the way that you play it. I'm certain you could get pretty hardcore about Bejeweled.

It's a fair division to make. People who spend most of their time playing games will probably have a different sort of critical taste than a 'casual.' Most art is like this - as you spend more time consuming art you can't help but recognize similarities between pieces, and similar mistakes as well.

I would even say that acknowledging this division is important for innovative game design. Realizing that there IS a market for crazy difficult, time-consuming games like Dark Souls is something that I wish more AAA-investor types realized.

[Leafsnail]

Only the best and purest of hardcore gamers fall for the 'space exploration sandbox' promises again and again

[Shadowlord]

I think that they weren't near ready for a release but Sony was pushing hard for it. Pretty much everything shows signs of heavy last-minute cuts and incomplete features.

*Grumbles about freakin peasants ruining gaming*

Ehhh it is a paradigm shift.

"Gamers" are not the primary market. We are secondary

So you think some people are "gamers" but not others even though they all play video games? Why so divisive?

Do you not recognize the difference between a person that plays WoW 8 hours a day vs. some fratbro that plays FIFA 2k9 only when he's drinking?

Better yet, do you really think that the millions of people who have played Bejeweled could be called gamers? It's never a hard line, and of course there is overlap, but as far as generalizations go it's a fairly safe one to make. Hell, it's less about the game and more about the way that you play it. I'm certain you could get pretty hardcore about Bejeweled.

It's a fair division to make. People who spend most of their time playing games will probably have a different sort of critical taste than a 'casual.' Most art is like this - as you spend more time consuming art you can't help but recognize similarities between pieces, and similar mistakes as well.

I would even say that acknowledging this division is important for innovative game design. Realizing that there IS a market for crazy difficult, time-consuming games like Dark Souls is something that I wish more AAA-investor types realized.

I occasionally play games on consoles, and in the past played a lot more - I played through all the Halo games except Halo 5, for instance, played through the Mass Effect series on 360, played Fable 2 and 3 on 360 and actually liked them, played and completed Arkham Asylum on 360, etc. Does this make me a "peasant" or not a "gamer?"

Or if it's time-based to you, why would you have to play games most of the day to be a "gamer?" Surely you wouldn't say that I'm not a gamer if all I do is play 30 minutes of Dominions 4 every day or two?

P.S. I didn't like Dark Souls or WoW or Bejeweled or innumerable other games, but you wouldn't say "No true gamer dislikes Dark Souls," would you?

P.P.S. I haven't upgraded my hardware since I built this computer, which I did when my previous one failed. Does not constantly upgrading my hardware make me not a gamer to you?

[miauw62]

The best definition for gamer is probably a person who identifies as one. I'm pretty sure somebody who sometimes plays Candy Crush Saga on their phone when they have to wait for their bus wouldn't identify as a gamer, for example.

[Shadowlord]

You'd have to ask them.

[Gabeux]

Only the best and purest of hardcore gamers fall for the 'space exploration sandbox' promises again and again

*raises hand*

*realizes that's not a good thing*

*raises another hand because commitment*

[Flying Dice]

I guess I'm not hardcore because I knew SC was a stinker from the first time I heard about it. 

[Neonivek]

lmao how can people even seriously say that games are going to shit when we've had a huge resurgence in niche indie games since like 2010.

"muh casuels runnin vidya ;~;" is pure bs. there's a small niche audience who thinks games are art, sure. sure, it's much more profitable to make games for the masses. but note that as long as people think games are art, they will make niche games for a niche audience.

and this is true for literally every form of art, ever? there are more music genres than pop, even if pop is the most popular. same for movies. same for TV series. same for anime. people don't just make games to make money. they make games because they want to make games.

Most people right now believe games are art, at least that is my inference. That isn't REALLY the issue.

Mostly it is that Casual Gamers are new to gaming (well SORT OF) and for the most part don't want anything too difficult or too deep (That was how I played games when I was a child. I'd put it on the easiest difficulty everytime and didn't care ) mostly because their primary focus is just playing a game immediately and having fun without too much of a learning curve. Against Marketers who believe that Casuals REALLY don't want anything too difficult and that they HATE depth.

Who now outnumber "gamers" (people who game as a hobby) significantly so now they are the primary demographic. So almost all games now are filtered through the lens of "Will the everyman like it? Will the everyman understand?".

As for "Niche Indie games" big huge freeken MEH! The cream rises to the top and a lot of indie developers are proud to coast along mediocrity because trying would be "too hard". Meaning that the vast majority of indie games are blander then uncooked tofu. It makes standouts few and far between.

But as much as I am making that sound bad... I am honestly glad that indie is making a resurgence. I am just saying they aren't the saviors of videogames anymore than Telltalegames was the savior of point and clicks (which is a shame because I wanted them to be >_>). Though maybe I should be giving both of them more credit.

The best definition for gamer is probably a person who identifies as one. I'm pretty sure somebody who sometimes plays Candy Crush Saga on their phone when they have to wait for their bus wouldn't identify as a gamer, for example.

Ehh I personally treat it as someone who has gaming as a hobby.

It is the difference between someone who read all the Harry Potter Novels (and Twilight) versus someone who just reads in general.

[Darkening Kaos]

     Hmmm.  It's the "Casual gamers are the ruination of the gaming industry" on the Bay12 forums.............Must be Friday.

[Cthulhu]

Only the best and purest of hardcore gamers fall for the 'space exploration sandbox' promises again and again

This is the only thing that needs to be said.  I would've called it the "procedural space sandbox meme" though.

[Neonivek]

     Hmmm.  It's the "Casual gamers are the ruination of the gaming industry" on the Bay12 forums.............Must be Friday.

Why whenever I bring it up people just translate what I say to that? That isn't even what I was even hinting at.

Wait a minute... *gets out translator*

Ok... "Casual gamer"

Translator: "Casual gamers are terrible and are ruining gaming with their casualness. They suck and should die"

Ohhh... now it makes sense. I didn't use the correct dialect and my annunciation is terrible.

Only the best and purest of hardcore gamers fall for the 'space exploration sandbox' promises again and again

This is the only thing that needs to be said.  I would've called it the "procedural space sandbox" meme though.

Just keeping this here since... I bumped it off... >_< oppps