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Tigra

5 (31.3%)

Wei He

9 (56.3%)

Sindhu

2 (12.5%)

Total Members Voted: 16

Voting closed: November 05, 2016, 04:00:47 pm

[Criptfeind]

Er.

There is no C option.

C) Demand that they pay for what they did or there will be consequences!

[flazeo25]

A

[Taricus]

Oh, whoops. Still

[NUKE9.13]

I wasn't trying to suggest a custom option, just explaining why I think C is the right choice here.

[Criptfeind]

I guess I'll swap my vote to C in the vain hopes that something other then the abandonment of legalism gets picked.

[Taricus]

The problem is that if we want this to end without further violence, we need to de-escalate. Which means not pressing the issue. Diplomacy takes precedence over legalism here. Just like the hurthlings we'd need to bridge those cultural divides slowly but surely. We can't just rush out and antagonise them.

[Criptfeind]

Ending without further short term violence isn't necessarily the correct option though. You're eroding the basis of power that the kingdom rests on in an attempt to not piss off foreigners, this is the church thing all over again, where you guys consistently picked the "logical" or "progressive" answer, ignoring the social and political realities of the kingdom. Yes, in the short term we can excuse this lapse of cultural knowledge and educate the lizardman for future interactions and eventually they can become strong trading partners with us and yada yada yada. It's not worth the cost to our houses already shattered reputation. The bloodline of the Haulandin is in steep decline, and has been since we got paranoia king. We need to rebuild the basis of our families rule in the kingdom, otherwise we're eventually not going to rule in the kingdom.

Feodh has no heirs, if there's an uprising against him it'd be pretty politically and probably even socially easy to for someone else to just take over.

[Taricus]

To be fair, I think we were trying to pull a church of england on the panthenon. So there's a logical reason for their reticence in bowing down on it. Which I do say we should still do. The army is... well, I think they're more pragmatically bent than anything. So reputation-wise we've only got the panthenon's priests to worry about. And the nobility though that's nothing a little purge or two can't solve (And same with the priests.)

[Criptfeind]

Currently the balance seems such that if a purge happens it's not the nobles and the priests that it's going to happen to.

Also.

Which I do say we should still do.

You realize we lost right? The priests have entrenched themselves deeply now, and are going to be ready for such a thing. If you really want to eventually overtake the priests and set up the religion as being under the king, we have a long long way to go, we basically lost our chance to do that with Llewyn. If you want to do such a thing it'd make a lot more sense to spend the WISE KING working on maintaining and growing our legitimacy, and then when we get a martial king we can start pushing the envelope.

[Taricus]

Well it's not as if Haspen's given us the option to do so now has he?

[Criptfeind]

To do what? Purge the nobility and priests? He gave us the option during the civil war. Only because the past kings had pushed so hard and sloppily against them already, they were hardened and ready and had the majority of the power in the kingdom on their side.

Edit: Also he did actually give the option to go to war against the priests a few times in the past I think, instead we threatened them I think it was?

[Taricus]

I'm pretty sure he didn't.

[Criptfeind]

B) Embrace excommunication and declare war upon the Cult.

If you guys really wanted to fuck the priests, the time would have been a surprise attack (so we could isolate the army away from preaching preachers) using a martial king. Alternatively we could have bowed to their demands and mended the rift between the kingdom and the cult. Instead the constant attempts for a peaceful and diplomatic solution where we don't have to give up anything lead us to a civil war and almost ended the family rule over the kingdom. Just like the attempts here with the lizards to find a diplomatic solution where we can have our cake and eat it too.

[Taricus]

To be fair, in that instance  we did cow them successfully. Seems like they forgot about that however.

[Criptfeind]

I would not count threatening a rebellion that toppled us a year later as a successful threat. This constant refusal to give up anything only managed to delay the threat for a year, at which point we were weaker.