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[Urist McScoopbeard]

I am continually shocked at GWS's decision making. I mean, how fucking stupid can you be? It's so OBVIOUS what the fanbase wants, and every decision in the past [insert number of decades here] has led to the exact opposite. Every new Warhammer games just looks so bad. I mean, worse than the last. Dark Millennium might have been a beacon of hope, but that was snuffed out by THQ/Relic's incompetence. To make it all the more nonsensical, the stuff they do put out can't possibly be profitable. So I'm not sure what the hell they're thinking.

[Anvilfolk]

What is it specifically that is making you say that?

I mean, it looks to me to be a really solid WH40k tactical game. Its graphics are decent for wargaming standards.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

What is it specifically that is making you say that?

I mean, it looks to me to be a really solid WH40k tactical game. Its graphics are decent for wargaming standards.

And what game is that? Sanctus Reach looks extremely mundane and unintuitive,

Armageddon is just a bad Panzer General clone,

Eisenhorn is--while somehow having put in the pre-production work--just wrong in all it's gameplay and graphical elements,

Carnage Champions is yet another bland unintuitive 40k game which just happens to be a side-scroller,

Legacy of Dorn barely qualifies as a game,

Battlefleet Gothic... Is actually pretty good in comparison to these titles,

Talisman is... I don't even fucking know what Talisman is,

Space Hulk I don't know. Some people hate it some people like it a lot,

Eternal Crusade is not what was promised,

Kill Team, bland and unintuitive,

DoW III looks so fucking bad I'm already angry about it and it's not even out.

IMO, the original DoW (+ expansions), Space Marine (but only really for the wave and multiplayer modes), and DoW II: The Last Stand are the only 40k video games I've found to be good--and the latter of the two don't even come close to approaching DoW. GWS just hasn't put the time into properly leasing the IP to a company who will do it justice since Relic/THQ... and uh, "New Relic" is bad. Baaad. This isn't to say there aren't ENJOYABLE titles out there, I.E. games like Battlefleet Gothic, Space Marine, and Eternal Crusade--but none of them really do justice to the kind of potential the IP possesses.

But let's talk about Sanctus Reach, because that seems to be what you're specifically talking about. First off, let it be known that I'm not a fan of turn-based strategy in video games as it is, so just know that I'm coming from that bias. HOWEVER, the whole point of video games--from one point of view--is that the computer does all the calculations for you and all you have to think about is strategy... If you just want to put tabletop into a video game, there are better ways to do it. If that's NOT your goal, why even bother with a grid-based TBS? I haven't played though. So I can really only extrapolate. From screenshots, the maps look boring, the art assets in general look boring. 40k's fluff is rich in description and grimdark--even after all the bullshit retcons, and I feel like they're just trying to move away from that, but all it's going to do is dilute the unique image of 40k. Then, of course, as always, this game <<appears>> to be unable to do what 40k is all about: giant armies clashing. Seriously, that's ALL I want from a 40k game, I want to see thousands of thousands of people in a colossal battle. Is that so much to ask for? Finally, related to my previous gripe, everything about this game just looks so uninspired. There's nothing in there that I haven't seen a thousand times before, not even any IG or Chaos. What? I'm so goddamn tired of genericmarines vs orks.

Now, I understand that the game is indeed the closest to tabletop in a game that has been developed so far, so for that, I give it props, but it could have just been done so much better. It just looks like that kind of game that might have been good a decade ago, but now it just seems half-baked, like they didn't REALLY want to put the love it needed into it.

If they just kept putting out AWFUL games, I would actually be less mad, because eventually they would get the signal that they're doing it wrong, but it's just been years upon years of mediocrity and somehow that just makes it all so much worse. The good ideas never get fully developed and the best fade into oblivion. That's my two cents.

[Anvilfolk]

It seems like you want something these games aren't not setting out to deliver, and therefore there's no way you'd find yourself happy with the result, no matter how graphically/technically competent they'd been made.

Not all WH40k fans are going to like all WH40k games. *shrug*

I for one am happy that all of these cool tactical rulesets I enjoy are making it into a universe I also enjoy. Definitely understand how people who want DoW++ wouldn't like this particular game though.

[Kot]

Oi - don't you talk shit about Armageddon and Battlefleet Gothic. They're both great games.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

It seems like you want something these games aren't not setting out to deliver, and therefore there's no way you'd find yourself happy with the result, no matter how graphically/technically competent they'd been made.

Pretty much. Though frankly, I could forgive and even enjoy MOST of these games if they just captured the 40k universe how I see it in my head. I was never a tabletopper though, my introduction to 40k was through the P&P RPGs and books, so my picture of the ideal 40k game is perhaps a little different than most. I can't deny, I DO want DoW++, BUT I really just want a 40k game that's got more polish. To me, it just feels like they're rehashing the same pseudo-tabletop setup without really innovating on the gameplay or sucking us into the world.

Oi - don't you talk shit about Armageddon and Battlefleet Gothic. They're both great games.

Battlefleet Gothic is legit.

[nenjin]

Oi - don't you talk shit about Armageddon and Battlefleet Gothic. They're both great games.

BFG I'll agree, even if I didn't find myself engrossed in it. Armageddon though is a cheap, lazy reskin of an existing game. I don't understand how anyone lets themselves be fooled by it. The most 40k thing in it is the background image for the mission briefing. Or perhaps the vehicle models that aren't actually used during gameplay.

[Jopax]

And you all seem to be forgetting Final Liberation, probably the best 40k TBS to date, despite its age.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

And you all seem to be forgetting Final Liberation, probably the best 40k TBS to date, despite its age.

My particular rant was against recent 40k games. Also that came out basically the year I was born, lol.

[Kot]

BFG I'll agree, even if I didn't find myself engrossed in it. Armageddon though is a cheap, lazy reskin of an existing game. I don't understand how anyone lets themselves be fooled by it. The most 40k thing in it is the background image for the mission briefing. Or perhaps the vehicle models that aren't actually used during gameplay.

Reskin of /what/?

Also, Final Liberation is the closest vidya ever got to tabletop, the only thing better is Vassal but that's not a playable game in itself. And Commissar Holt is The Man.

[nenjin]

Panzer General.

[Kot]

Except no. You haven't played either if you think this way.
Panzer General usually operates at at least battalion scale, getting up to divisions and corps on most missions. Armageddon operates at only platoon scale at most - which is why most units (not only artillery and such) actually have ranged attacks, which allows for melee to exist in meaningful form and actually changes a whole lot about the tactics of the game. A good comprasion is Panzer Corps - the game by the same developers and on which engine Armageddon pretty much runs and shares a lot with - I've played both, and Armageddon is, in fact, different. Armageddon is surely not an game for everyone, but I'd say it lived up to my expectations... which, to be honest, were quite low, since I was prepared to not expect more than an adaptation that is basically Warhammer 40k Panzer Corps (and it's actually a bit more, as I said), since that is what the developer mostly makes and that was how it looked from previews. The genre is so niche I don't expect a lot of people to have fun with Armageddon, but as someone who actually plays those games I must say I had quite a lot fun with it.

As far as the Lore goes, the game actually contains a bit. For instance, the Inquisitor Horst from BFG:A also appears in Armaggedon and actually it turns out the dude gets around quite a lot, he was mentioned in some other lore pieces as far back as 2nd edition.

[Anvilfolk]

Yeah, I played some Panzer Corps, some Order of Battle (similarish hex-based wargame) and Armageddon. All three are solid titles, and they are all three different. Armageddon has some nifty mechanics like each individual figure in a unit firing separately, which doesn't happen in Panzer Corps as far as I could tell. That alone gives it a completely different layer for tactics.

Also, I've played about an hour of Sanctus Reach, and I'm having a blast.

I've also started digging into it, and it basically looks like barely anything is hard-coded. Which basically means folks can mod the living hell out of the game. I might dig into it myself, see if I can't figure out a way to have persistent skirmishes!

[Scoops Novel]

I hope necromunda doubles the fuck down on gangster personality. The only edge this game has on xcom, as an observer, is that the units have much more personality -injuries, leadership, small numbers. If they do it right it will actually feel like leading a shifty flavour of the criminal element rather then disposable meatbags. The different houses should feel like the difference between sons of anarchy and oceans 11.

[Teneb]

I hope necromunda doubles the fuck down on gangster personality. The only edge this game has on xcom, as an observer, is that the units have much more personality -injuries, leadership, small numbers. If they do it right it will actually feel like leading a shifty flavour of the criminal element rather then disposable meatbags. The different houses should feel like the difference between sons of anarchy and oceans 11.

I just hope that the fact that both Mordheim and Necromunda have games might mean a future Gorkamorka game, with all the greenskin nonesense that entails.