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[Zurai]

2-3 is a little slow for me. I prefer 15-20 positive growth a year (so usually 20-25 immigrants depending on wildlife, military training accidents, and posessions). I also NEVER kill Nobles, even if I get 7+ at a time, and I always meet their needs ASAP.

[DDouble]

I never kill migrants either. It's not necessary if you keep expanding at the rate the game needs you to. Although, I do put most peasents into military squads or fortress guards, and those are dangerous jobs.

[w]

I agree with the general sentiment that intentionally killing, or letting die, your dwarves seems like losing.  Significantly.

However, I am willing to make one exception: Nobles.

But this is not for convenience, like I've seen a lot of other people - "such-and-such a noble is a pain, so I drowned him" - this is ALL nobles.  Kill them ALL.

Because we are freedwarves, and will bow to no dwarf.

[Pacho]

Heh, I only kill nobles who constantly (and I mean nonstop) make impossible demands like colored diamonds and the such.

[Gibby]

Back on the topic of wounds, has anyone had anyone sucsessfully recover from a red lung? I had a guy suffer what I'd assume was a pierced lung, and a broken (yellow) chest. He rested for aprox. a year, recovered from the chest wound and attempted to return to work with a pierced lung. Constantly passed out, never completed jobs.

[axus]

I've never seen a red injury get better.  I've had a dwarf in bed with red lower boddy and kept happy for 2 years.  She makes a great warm body for meeting the royal guard count, at least she still serves a purpose.

[Gibby]

I've seen red limbs heal, just not organs. Takes a good 5-10 years.

[Gakidou]

quote:Originally posted by w:
<STRONG>I agree with the general sentiment that intentionally killing, or letting die, your dwarves seems like losing.  Significantly.

However, I am willing to make one exception: Nobles.

But this is not for convenience, like I've seen a lot of other people - "such-and-such a noble is a pain, so I drowned him" - this is ALL nobles.  Kill them ALL.

Because we are freedwarves, and will bow to no dwarf.</STRONG>

I like this attitude, but it is hard to deny that certain nobles serve very useful purposes. (The bookkeeper, especially.) Hopefully it will eventually be possible to split away from the feudal system, and serve these purposes in another way.

Maybe the option to revolt from your home kingdom, which, if successful, lets you set up a democratic system by which brokers, bookkeepers, diplomats, etc. are chosen by the popular vote of your dwarven citizens?

[Seryntas]

I've always been pretty cool about my immigrants.  Even peasants and jewelers can haul stone, after all, and my world-class herd of horses (and cows, now, too!  I got a breeding pair of cows and they've been going at it like crazy!) can be butchered for meat in the 600s or 700s, which can support the maximum population.  Plus, the more stupid, random novice workers I have, the higher the chance that I'll get a crazy skill in a mood (a dwarf that I considered totally useless to the running of the fortress withdrew from society and came out a legendary leatherworker).  I do, however, field a large standing army, because that's the dwarven way.

As for wounded dwarves: A jeweler who didn't make sapphire items for a mandate (not his fault, of course; we didn't have sapphire, and my six-dwarf mining corps was scouring the area east of the chasm for them) got a beating, and wound up with a red wound to his lower body.  He now can't make jewelry because he keeps having to go and rest his wound.  I also have a peasant with a gray eye injury who goes unconscious every couple of minutes (and yet somehow manages to take care of her two kids), but she only has hauling jobs enabled (of note: One of her kids was born Lokum Dastotnom, or Lokum Swordgod, and his father is the first professional soldier I ever recieved in an immigration wave.  Once I discovered this, I had my best weaponcrafter make two steel short swords, the only swords in my entire fortress, for him to wield he grows up.)

[Noglet]

The nobles don't work on a feudal model but on a late-capitalistic model of luxury consumerism. I take this to be a satire on capitalism's contemporary claims about the plausibility of permanent growth economics given the fact of limited resources for manufacturing commodity goods, but that might just be me. The logical social outcomes of this -- in mass worker poverty and social injustice, authoritarian repression of this underclass, and the coercive policing of economic production and consumption -- are the usual experience  of the later stages of the game! The interesting next move would be exactly that possibility for a return to the primitive communism of the first part of the game, but on the ramped-up production scale of the later part, with elections as suggested above to the useful posts of the administration. A revolution! This could in turn generate political factions within the fortress itself, which I think would be great fun... but, as always, that might just be me.  Dwarf Fortress as an essay in Marxian historiography rocks my world.

[Angela Christine]

I don't like exterminating immigrants either.  I just assume that my total colonization party is 200 dwarves, and the initial 7 are just the advance scouts.  Off screen those other 193 dwarves earned their place by helping to set up and fund the expedition, the 7 scout dwarves couldn't have afforded all that equipment, wagons, and livestock on their own.  That way I don't view immigrants as unwanted invaders, but rather as long awaited arrivals.  

Immigration of normal (non-noble) dwarves is supposed to stop at 200, and from there on out you just have to worry about babies and nobles.  Right from the outset I assume that I'm going to need 200 regular bedrooms and 20 Noble's suites within, say, five years.  I'll need about 220 beds, 100 tables, 120 chairs, 130 coffers, 130 cabinets, 50 armor stands, 50 weapon racks, etc.  I rarely have everything set up before the immigrants arrive, but I usually enough Noble's rooms set up to cover at least half of the nobles that arrive in any given immigration wave.  My main dining room may only have a couple tables in it, but at 13*13-1 it is easily capable of holding all the tables I'll ever need as soon as I build them (40 tables/40 chairs seems to be more than enough for the 130 non-noble dwarves I have now).  My main food preparation and storage area is laid out between my farms and dining room (for efficient seed and plant movement) and is dug out as six 7*6 rooms with doors (to contain miasma mishaps) each capable of holding up to two food related workshops with plenty of storage room.  I may some day need more than 12 indoor food workshops, but I haven't yet.  It isn't perfect.  For example, I usually don't have metalsmithing running full steam before the mayor shows up, so my initial fortress guard tends to be mostly peasant/wrestlers with leather armor and wooden shields, but that helps prevent sparring injuries so it's not totally a bad thing.   :p  They can learn to use sharp pointy things when I have iron and steel to spare.

The population should stabilize around 200, so planning for 200 prevents the need for extreme population control.  When 24 dwarves show up all at once it isn't that I don't have room for them, I know exactly where their rooms are, they just have to stay in the barracks temporarily until the miners are finished digging them out.  People sleeping in barracks usually stay happy (but not ecstatic) as long as there is plenty of food and drink.  Hey look, two of the new guys are miners!  Sweet, they can dig out their own rooms.

Speaking of wounded, one of my marksdwarves was wounded in the last goblin invasion.  He was carried back to bed to heal, he's getting fed and watered regularly, and seems to be doing ok.  He's not happy, but he's not tantruming either.  Then I checked his inventory:  

(bronze bolt) (stuck in lower left arm)
(bronze bolt) (stuck in lower left arm)

Er, he's still got bolts stuck in him?  That can't be good. That might explain the "Pain" on his wound screen.  Will he eventually pull them out?  Will someone else pull them out?  Should I assume that they are permanent piercings and rename him Pin Cushion?

[ October 20, 2006: Message edited by: Angela Christine ]

[psychologicalshock]

In adventure mode you can pull them out yourself. In dwarf mode I believe it's kaput for your dwarf.

Rules of thumb when a dwarf is hopeless:
1. When his organs are red.
2. When his neck is hurt , he wont ever walk again.
3. When there are bolts stuck in him.
4. When his eyes are hurt.
5. When his spine is hurt (Same as neck)
6. Damaged brain.

In conclusion the only wounds which will ever heal are mangled/broken limbs, slightly hurt head (Assuming nothing else is damaged) and body wounds which do not concern the organs. Albeit sometimes one organ not working is not a problem (As with lungs) but it does make them inefficient.

By the way has anyone ever had a dwarf survive a missing organ which has a counter-part? I once heard someone had a dwarf survive missing a brain for at least a season.

[ October 22, 2006: Message edited by: psychologicalshock ]

[Seryntas]

One of my dwarves got a yellow neck injury and his behavior didn't change.  Even with a supposed broken upper spine, he still hauled stone with the best of 'em.

[psychologicalshock]

That's strange, ive had a dwarf laying with the same injury for 10 or so years.

Edit: I just had the Hammerer have his spine snap during a siege. In 2 minutes he was back up and hammering. I wasn't too impressed.

[ October 22, 2006: Message edited by: psychologicalshock ]

[Sestze]

On the topic of wounds and nobles...

I ignored a command by the Broker to build three rings, until I got the message that the mandate was canceled. I thought nothing of it, until I saw a poor craftsdwarf at his loom.

If you could CALL it a craftsdwarf at that point, he was missing two limbs, and had four red injuries. He was unconscious, bleeding, and oddly enough, "ecstatic"

Why the hell is he so happy? "He has been fed recently. He has slept in a great room recently. He has been beaten recently. He has been happy about his punishment being reduced."

At this point, I'm confused as hell as to what is going on, as I'm down a craftsdwarf who was doing nothing more than clothing the entire fortress single handedly.

I went and checked on the Broker, "He (had) ordered a beating recently". I checked on the Sherriff, and under his personal wants/desires, it said "Has administered a beating recently"

I took it upon myself at that point to start a small coup-de-etat. I reassigned all of the noble's rooms to a locked area right up against the river, waited until they all were there, and locked the door. They all starved to death, looking across the river at one coffin in the middle of a small 5x5 room, bearing the name of the now deceased craftsdwarf.

Fuck nobles.