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Played out, they've already been done over and over.

3 (1.9%)

Tutorials for the latest game versions are useful.

22 (14.3%)

Latest game versions are similar enough to older versions for past tutorials to be relevant.

14 (9.1%)

They are not necessary to learn DF, only the wiki and time.

21 (13.6%)

They are the best way to learn to play Dwarf Fortress.

6 (3.9%)

They are fun to watch.

13 (8.4%)

There are many players who would pick up Dwarf Fortress if they could more easily learn it.

20 (13%)

You watch tutorials even as a seasoned player.

9 (5.8%)

You learned to play the game through video let's plays/tutorials

14 (9.1%)

There is an audience for DF tutorials.

19 (12.3%)

The DF tutorials that have been done are not satisfactory.

2 (1.3%)

The DF tutorials that have been done don't cover advanced topics.

11 (7.1%)

Total Members Voted: 41

Voting closed: August 11, 2016, 03:53:24 pm

[RayJam]

Hey guys, made an account to ask some of these questions. I'm a long time DF player it's probably been 5 years since I started. I'd made some decent let's play/tutorials that my small audience seemed to like, left the game for most of the last 2 years and came back after hearing it got some fat updates! Fat updates indeed, fortress and adventure mode are plenty more interesting now.

Well my interest in the game has been renewed I'm currently addicted to it again, and I have the knowledge and resources to make some much better videos than before. In comparison to most of the channels I've seen I think I can get through things more quickly, more organized and not awkward or whisper quiet. I haven't made videos in forever but been thinking about making like a 12 part DF tutorial series. I saw someone asking in a post recently if there are regular people that played DF lol there were a few normal dudes and all the rest autistic weirdos in the comments reciting their manifestos on how normal they are.... hahaha I do think the DF audience is really weird, and it's perfectly fine, I'm probably on the weird side of the spectrum. But I think I'm a bit more mainstream, hip-hop or whatever and could appeal to a slightly different audience, or one that's been here and untapped. I've been away so long tho I'm just not sure.

So please check out this poll and leave your thoughts on the current Dwarf Fortress 'meta', has everyone that IS going to know about Dwarf Fortress already heard about it? If not I'd like to do an ASCII, thoroughly edited guide from advanced world gen to the point of having a standing military and automated production, keeping episodes <10 min. Was also thinking of doing snappier single topic videos like little 1-3 min things on little things like setting up Minecarts, certain inventions like danger rooms and water wheel reactor, or just specific strategies like early food production, getting through aquifers and such. Sounding good to anyone?

It's in my nature to just ramble and talk smack (also getting... less than sober. I know I have to be careful here in these forums with these references), long topic-less videos are lazy and fun to do. I'm actually not very experienced with adventure at all, haven't even defeated a semi-megabeast yet. So if anyone likes my stuff I was also thinking of doing some longer, maybe just streaming, adventure mode while ... 'on one', for pure entertainment zero education. Crazy idea, I know, I'm so original... but I feel like this sort of personality is missing from DF, everyone is so proper and engineered, making cringey couples videos (one dude did one with his very young son... ) there aren't many regular jackasses just having fun with the game in these videos.

[steel jackal]

personally i had to figure out DF with just the wiki and time, i would have loved it to see quick tutorials that explained how to do the simple things like farm and make booze (food and drink being the main cause of fortress death when i first started)

df is such an open ended game that theres a number of different ways to do certain tasks, so even if you know how to do something, you might find a more efficient way of doing it from a tutorial by a more advanced player.

there have recently been some new additions to the game that dont have much information on them, like libraries (something that i cant figure out even with the wiki)

and tutorials can be interesting to watch while your dwarves are busy doing stuff and your just idling.

i would love to see video tutorials from advanced players on how to do some advanced things, df is a game where we all can learn from each other and build upon our experience as a community

[Fleeting Frames]

I typically avoid video tutorials for them often using spoken words + wait for buffering + if things happen too quick having to go back, if too slow being slowed...But yeah I've watched at least one for getting through an aquifer, so they can help, especially to give an idea how difficult/lengthy something is.

Was also thinking of doing snappier single topic videos like little 1-3 min things on little things like setting up Minecarts, certain inventions like danger rooms and water wheel reactor

I'll note that all 3 of those (can) include minecarts :p
(Especially with the state of armor damage and joint twisting making spear rooms a dangerous relic)

[StarWars1981]

I think, if you make a decent video series of tutorials covering the basics, it will be useful. And then a SEPARATE one, labeled as advanced stuff for after the initial fortress construction, for advanced things, would be great.
The basics include such things as standard (unmodified) key commands for vanilla Fortress and Adventurer modes, which would be separate videos; a run-through of ALL the interface screens and the announcements/reports tabs at once, and then some demonstrations on looking at dwarves and animals for Thoughts/Preferences, Health, various other stuff like Skills and Inventory. Then, on to the "doing stuff" part, after doing a FULL Embark setup, so working through all items and talking through it. Then get on with building crud in whatever biome. Maybe talk about the other types - i.e. volcano, Ultimate Evil biomes, and whatnot else. Demonstrate some Dwarf Physics and SCIENCE, go through how the Z-levels and tiles work, movement things, stockpiling, burrows, and emergency orders. Perhaps an entire video on military stuff - conscripting, arming, training. Establish basic facts on workshops first, then advanced things, then finally Dwarven Storage (QSPs) and high-efficiency workshop setups. Perhaps also cover wild animals - i.e. wandering giant wombats, bunnies, cats(plosions), dragons, rocs, jabberers, and the odd giant one-eyed hairless fire-breathing evil bunny come to ruin your fort (Madman198237 posted about that somewhere, I believe, about a year or two ago in the What's Going on in Your Fort page; hard one to forget, really) with its ... inability to fly across the raised drawbridge. Whoops. Talk about basic defense, advanced defense, animal care/use, butchery, carpentry, elves, humans, real sentient beings (dwarves), and whatnot else may come up.
And above all make it interesting. If the fort dies within 5 minutes, or else succeeds sometime quickly with, Idk, wrecking a goblin siege, then great!
Yeah, you should do it. I figured it out trial-and-error style, with occasional (2-second gap) references to the wiki.

[RayJam]

(Especially with the state of armor damage and joint twisting making spear rooms a dangerous relic)

Oh wow so danger rooms are done? I never used them much because it felt like an exploit... dang I need to humble myself and read over the changelogs closely. I would hate to give bad information in a video. But that's just it I plan to really thoroughly test these things and edit them up like that instead of just guessing. The new locations seem simple enough, temple removes bad thought and tavern brings you tons of soldiers but I haven't tried attracting scholars yet I'm not extremely experienced there... Personalities and happiness seems to have changed a ton too. I know falling damage has been bumped up, herbalists are at risk of getting stuck in trees if someone steals their stepladder lol... but I'm realizing I do need to play this version some more own my lonesome before saying something as gospel.

I think, if you make a decent video series of tutorials covering the basics, it will be useful. And then a SEPARATE one, labeled as advanced stuff for after the initial fortress construction, for advanced things, would be great.
[...]
And above all make it interesting. If the fort dies within 5 minutes, or else succeeds sometime quickly with, Idk, wrecking a goblin siege, then great!
Yeah, you should do it. I figured it out trial-and-error style, with occasional (2-second gap) references to the wiki.

Yee this is almost exactly what I'm thinking, very distinctly separating the topics so things are easy to locate and choose by skill level. That's a big obstacle with current DF tutorials, the episodes lack focus and are just piled with information how it chronologically came up, but I think things can be organized better.

That's pretty much an outline of what everything up to intermediate skill level, where you are sufficient, after that things become more about efficiency, complex scheduling and routing,whatever weird challenges and !!FUN!! of course. That's where it would get to advanced. So I'm imagining splitting things up even a little more, doing a real basic embark one time like you say and not worrying if it dies, like a DF showcase for people that haven't seen it before, maybe played a roguelike and that's it. Going through world gen to seeing some game mechanics and combat, just as like an appetizer for an episode or 2 at ~5 min. Then I can run it into the ground showing off whatever things and go over embarking again to explain things again but from the perspective of someone who's seen a quick run through of what the game is going to be and now how they want to take my advice and plan their own fortress. Instead of how the first time they got all this detail that didn't make sense and they didn't remember.... my entire goal here is to keep these things snappy and underwhelming.

Maybe it's kinda self-defeating to try an appeal to an attention deficit audience for a game that takes so much meticulous thought, but when I was learning I wanted to get in ASAP. I learned by watching Cpt. Duck's oldest tutorials, and like others' videos they were fun and useful, but for a beginner I think a lot of details could've be left out and some of the more exciting or vital parts covered at first just to help hook people in. I and we were the people that stayed but I wonder how many watched the videos and were discouraged or turned off.

So far this is great stuff to hear... I think it sucks more people don't know about Dwarf Fortress, it's one my favorite games of all time, it's a deep, free lightweight (if you choose to) game to have on the computer and I think has potential to draw a much bigger crowd.

[Fleeting Frames]

Oh wow so danger rooms are done?

Eh...only spear and probably coinstar (not sure about twisting with them, but no armor = deadstar) based ones. I mentioned minecarts for a reason

If you showcase test in videos there's not so much chance of showing mistaken stuff, though....

[Corune]

As someone who just got into the game a week ago, I would LOVE some videos explaining the more complex stuff in detail and with examples.

I'm having a ton of fun, but it's easy to feel a bit overwhelmed sometimes. lol

[Starver]

Looks like I coincide with various blips already in the result.

Spoiler: My choices and reasons (click to show/hide)

Played out, they've already been done over and over.
Disagree. They have been done over and over, but until the game is finalised (and likely not even then) you can't say there's nothing more to learn.

Tutorials for the latest game versions are useful.
Agree. There's probably things I could still learn. And even if not me, because of my divine perfection and omniscence, some mere mortal will benefit.

Latest game versions are similar enough to older versions for past tutorials to be relevant.
Agree. Some things are the same. Just be aware that some things are not.

They are not necessary to learn DF, only the wiki and time.
Agree that tutorials are not necessary. But, for me, it was mostly just time. (Wiki followed forums in necessity, but I can't even remember what the wiki state was when I started, so its relative absent might have factored into my early days.)

They are the best way to learn to play Dwarf Fortress.
Disagree, but mostly because different people appreciate different methods and rornsomebthey may be the best way to get over a particular sticky-patch in the learning cliff.

They are fun to watch.
Agreed. Definitely. With benefit of experience they can be like a Let's Play, or actually revelatory.

There are many players who would pick up Dwarf Fortress if they could more easily learn it.
Agreed. But not limited to just tutorial videos. All forms of guidance.

You watch tutorials even as a seasoned player.
Disagree. As in that it is rare. But not hecause I don't want to. Tempus fugit, basically.

You learned to play the game through video let's plays/tutorials
Disagree. I jever did.

There is an audience for DF tutorials.
Agree. Indeed there is. Even if not normally me.

The DF tutorials that have been done are not satisfactory.
Disagree. They vary, but there are goodbones I've seen.

The DF tutorials that have been done don't cover advanced topics.
Disagree. Indeed some have. (Depends on the demonstrator and the intended demonstration.)

[RayJam]

Just want to thank you guys again for the feedback! It's got me feeling motivated!

"RayJam has been possesed!"
"RayJam has claimed a Recording Studio."

lol I'm taking this all in, practicing my DF, and working on the game plan. I look forward to teaching and learning from you guys 

[Miuramir]

I think a set of really clear video tutorials will help a lot of people; and increase interest in and support for DF. 

Personally, I'm not the target audience; if I'm someplace I have the time, hardware, and network to watch a video, I'm probably in front of my PC and can actually play DF myself.  I'm also of the opinion that clearly laid out wiki material is a superior reference.  However, these days there seem to be a lot of people who can and want to watch video of other people playing things; and a lot of people who prefer video "how-to"s to reading a wiki. 

My main suggestion / request is that you be very clear about what version you are using, what mods or plugins or tools you are using, and what features come from them vs. vanilla (stock) DF.  In an ideal world, tutorials would focus on vanilla DF, but that sadly seems less likely these days.  If you are going to use a variety of mods and tools, it would be good to stick to a stock install of the LNP or some similar arrangement that less-technical viewers can easily replicate. 

[Kryxx]

Not sure where you linking from that is referenced since you don't say.

Das (Youtube name changed to DasTactic), did some video's last year that pretty extensive that covered everything during a few month period of last year with the current build then.  A lot of video's 50+ 30 min each typically 1-2 topics for each time.  Many newer players used them and like them.   

It's actually better for a 'newer' or person that isn't highly extensive in playing to make videos.

People that play a lot, and are used to certain things, do hundreds of shortcuts and things and forget about much of it and never make mistakes.  Even showing minor mistakes are how to correct them in videos is what get's people to learn.

It's probably the most up to date series that I've seen.

[Arthropleura]

PeridexErrant's DF Walkthrough is what helped me finally learn some of dwarf mode. Still havent finished it, but learning and remembering all the shortcuts gave me the confidence to finally learn adventurer mode.

[mscottveach]

I just wanted to second a recommendation for DasTactics DF for newbies videos. They're well organized.
Fairly succinct (by youTube standards) and comprehensive. I watched them when was making them and
I still go back to them from time to time to remember some detail.

If one was going to embark on a new set of videos I think taking a look at these is a good idea. If you
have value to add over what he's done then definitely go for it.

[RayJam]

Das (Youtube name changed to DasTactic), did some video's last year that pretty extensive that covered everything during a few month period of last year with the current build then.  A lot of video's 50+ 30 min each typically 1-2 topics for each time.  Many newer players used them and like them.   

These are exactly the kind of videos I see everyone making and I want to completely avoid. Those are absurdly long and unfocused, I think it's awful having to skim through 20+ hours of gameplay footage to learn the game... nothing against the guy, as an LP it's perfectly fine, he's got a good voice, I saw him using all kinds of awesome utilities like the legends viewer, but nothing very vanilla and I didn't listen long enough to see if he's funny. But for learning... I mean a single episode is 30 minutes? I don't have the attention span for that. I think once the game mechanics are grasped the wiki is all you really need. But until then I think players can get up and running in only 1 half hour or so, and the utilities especially can convolute what the game is.

Interesting though, that you say many new players like these. I believe it, other people have said it, and if anyone knows it's you guys. If that's the case tho I'll probably not make my videos since there wouldn't be much a use for them.

PeridexErrant's DF Walkthrough is what helped me finally learn some of dwarf mode. Still havent finished it, but learning and remembering all the shortcuts gave me the confidence to finally learn adventurer mode.

Pretty much the same here, I think I caught a link to that guide and it was my first introduction to DF. I think written guides and by nature are plenty more concise, organized, and funny. They are very good but not for visualizing, I had to transfer over to video format to really understand what was going on with the Z levels and some of the more complex ideas. I think he hit the pace and tone just right with that guide

[daagar]

Das (Youtube name changed to DasTactic), did some video's last year that pretty extensive that covered everything during a few month period of last year with the current build then. 

These are exactly the kind of videos I see everyone making and I want to completely avoid. Those are absurdly long and unfocused

This comment makes me think you were looking at his Let's Plays, which are indeed different from his much more focused tutorial videos. His LP series go heavily into back stories, legends, etc. as he really likes to play a story vs. other folks who might min/max. Check again for his tutorial series which is what Kyrxx is referring to. While I prefer wiki-style guides generally, DasTactic vids are right up there.