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Author Topic: [SG] Draconic Dominion  (Read 6777 times)

ATHATH

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Re: [SG] Draconic Dominion
« Reply #75 on: August 12, 2016, 12:57:58 am »

The necromantic coven is dead anyways. I think we exterminated it on our journey. "Needless to say, the past tense wording was very accurate in regards to that last one."
Yeah, I know that. I asked WHY we destroyed it.

Why are we trying to condemn a perfectly valid school of magic? Necromancy involves restoring the life of/inserting life into corpses, right?
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*slow clap* Well ATHATH congratulations. You managed to give the MC a mental breakdown before we even finished the first arc.
I didn't even read it first, I just saw it was ATHATH and noped it. Now that I read it x3 to noping

somemildmanneredidiot

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Re: [SG] Draconic Dominion
« Reply #76 on: August 12, 2016, 01:06:23 am »

According to lore, it corrupts and destroys all the things and is from demons. It would also cause corruptive backlash to us, presumably similar to what would happen if a lot of people died around us.
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RAM

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Re: [SG] Draconic Dominion
« Reply #77 on: August 12, 2016, 02:05:25 am »

So necromancy basically comes from somewhere else and operates on a different set of principals to our world, and has a tendency to impose its own nature upon our world when in high concentrations. So we would be perfect fine having a small necromantic influence, say, a single active necromancer, a single teacher, and two apprentices. Of course, this would be Extremely distasteful, both to our own sensibilities(we are a magical creature after all, no doubt necromancy 'smells' bad to us) and anyone else who knows what is what. Still, if we wanted to go all-out scholarly, then we could probably justify just enough necromancers to study the field without really having it be used on any sort of society-wide level.

I do not see us as being established as being that scholarly, nor opposed to the natural order of our own world, so I think that necromancy would be too far out-of-character to justify any indulgences. Although I am willing to support any efforts to become more scholarly...

And demi-dragons are a huge no-no if we are going the religious route. Spreading around a bunch of folk with divine heritage is just begging to dilute the concept of divinity...
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Transcendant

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Re: [SG] Draconic Dominion
« Reply #78 on: August 12, 2016, 10:07:48 am »

Guys, it's ok. Just kinda follow the DM's lore and world stuff on this one. Not a huge deal.

We're a life dragon, necromancy is our opposite, comes from demons and corrupts life. ( See DM's latest post). It's not a perfectly good school to us. In the OP Original Post You may notice different types of dragons are opposite to one another. Blue opposite from Red (Water and Fire). Brown Opposite White (Earth and Air), Yellow opposite purple (light and darkness), and yes, Green Opposite Black (Life and Death). That's the way the guy does it and it makes sense.

As to why we seem to have destroyed a necromancy problem (assuming we did): It's our opposite, it corrupts life into unlife, it screws up everything around it through corruption, and it might have become a problem later.

I respectfully disagree about the half dragon issue. If we do it ever so selectively with our most loyal followers and raise the offspring as our "chosen ones" then they amplify the divine stuff. It's something only the best of the best, the most loyal of loyal get for their offspring. A tremendous honor and earned privilege through deeds. To be worthy of being with a God.... (Heck, think Zeus if nothing else and a negative angle is required somehow). We just have to make sure they're super loyal, and know everything came from us and they represent us etc etc.
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IronyOwl

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Re: [SG] Draconic Dominion
« Reply #79 on: August 12, 2016, 03:42:50 pm »

And demi-dragons are a huge no-no if we are going the religious route. Spreading around a bunch of folk with divine heritage is just begging to dilute the concept of divinity...
The point of our divinity, presumably, is that we can do neat stuff, not that we're way above them for really vague reasons. Trying to "control" divinity to keep is super-special strikes me as a lot of effort for a really fragile claim; the instant anything else shows up claiming it's a god, suddenly we're on even footing unless we instantly and effortlessly destroy the usurper to prove they were lying. Raw power and benevolence doesn't really suffer from those problems, because it's not pretentious to begin with.

Besides, I would think a goddess of Life might be expected to get around a bit, and most religions are going to want divine servants.
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RAM

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Re: [SG] Draconic Dominion
« Reply #80 on: August 12, 2016, 04:53:01 pm »

Black dragons seem to hate necromancy more than green ones do. Necromancy is magic from another world, dragons are magic from dragon world, necromancy is universally in opposition to dragons. Though, as I said, if a dragon were curious enough than it seems likely that necromancy could be studied in a controlled environment...

And I still maintain that half-dragons are a bad idea. Look at Zeus, half the demigods ended up being outright villains, heretics, or meeting grisly ends and the creation of demigods is largely cited as a mark against Zeus' mental divinity. All it takes is one spoiled brat, one traumatised villain, one random lunatic, and then we have a problem. Either they go around being heretical to our teachings while being clearly divine to the ignorant masses or they are 'dealt with' in some way which undermines the invulnerability of the divine by being punished and the reputation of the divine by having cause to be punished. Or we have a fragile child who is kidnapped, assassinated, intimidated, whatever, and we get the same problem... There really is no possible way to spread the divinity around without diluting its reputation.
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vishdafish

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Re: [SG] Draconic Dominion
« Reply #81 on: August 12, 2016, 05:16:01 pm »

But Zeus laid with every women he found attractive and didnt raise the children properly. We will carefully select the parents of the offspring for complete loyalty and raise them to be loyal to us since birth. Either way, if they show problems when they are young, we can cull them.
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RAM

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Re: [SG] Draconic Dominion
« Reply #82 on: August 13, 2016, 03:04:36 am »

Call me crazy but I am just not that confident in our parenting abilities. I mean, do you honestly feel confident about preventing the outbursts of a teenaged demigod? Just controlling them is kind of dubious, people will still see divine power going out of control. No matter how much effort we put into selection, children just can never be perfectly predicted. As for a life goddess killing their own children as a matter of policy? I fail to see any way that will work...
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IronyOwl

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Re: [SG] Draconic Dominion
« Reply #83 on: August 13, 2016, 03:23:43 pm »

And I still maintain that half-dragons are a bad idea. Look at Zeus, half the demigods ended up being outright villains, heretics, or meeting grisly ends and the creation of demigods is largely cited as a mark against Zeus' mental divinity. All it takes is one spoiled brat, one traumatised villain, one random lunatic, and then we have a problem. Either they go around being heretical to our teachings while being clearly divine to the ignorant masses or they are 'dealt with' in some way which undermines the invulnerability of the divine by being punished and the reputation of the divine by having cause to be punished. Or we have a fragile child who is kidnapped, assassinated, intimidated, whatever, and we get the same problem... There really is no possible way to spread the divinity around without diluting its reputation.
But again, all of this applies just as well to anything else. Red dragon shows up, blue demidragon, green drake, demon, particularly charismatic vampire- if "our daughter but also a bitch" is some kind of panic mode, so is anything fancy, because all of a sudden we "have a problem" and "divinity doesn't mean what it used to." Accordingly, the only way to keep that out is to build some kind of bubble kingdom which, surprise surprise, we're not going to have enough time or spread to do without divine servants.

You're also completely discounting the benefits. What happens if we give birth to a hero? Suddenly divinity means way more than it used to and all of our problems are solved? If so, I like those odds. If not, why would the reverse be true?

Call me crazy but I am just not that confident in our parenting abilities. I mean, do you honestly feel confident about preventing the outbursts of a teenaged demigod? Just controlling them is kind of dubious, people will still see divine power going out of control. No matter how much effort we put into selection, children just can never be perfectly predicted.
"Not that confident" is reasonable, but nobility is often tutored by assorted mentors anyway, so I don't see a huge problem with our personal parenting skills or sleeping habits.

As for a life goddess killing their own children as a matter of policy? I fail to see any way that will work...
Unless we're going for some kind of false idol tyrant thing, I too see no way culling children is going to end well. As long as we're talking about Zeus, recall that he got his job in the first place usurping his father who was culling his children to prevent them from usurping him. Nobody looks at Cronus and thinks "oh yeah, that's how you maintain order, just eat all the insolent ones."
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The kitchenette mold free, you move on to the pantry. it's nasty in there. The bacon is grazing on the lettuce. The ham is having an illicit affair with the prime rib, The potatoes see all, know all. A rat in boxer shorts smoking a foul smelling cigar is banging on a cabinet shouting about rent money.

escaped lurker

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Re: [SG] Draconic Dominion
« Reply #84 on: August 13, 2016, 04:29:00 pm »

Well, the zeus thing, is actually quite an interesting topic. Even Ares, somewhat a god in name only, which was more described as a "demon of war and conflict", and only truly paid homage to in sparta - with a statue bound in chains - was perceived to have become that way because of his father. Or, well, more because hera's influence over him, and their shared hatred of zeus' unfaithful ways.
[Quoted from Illiad, Zeus speaking to Ares:
"To me you are the most hateful of all the gods who hold Olympus.
Forever quarrelling is dear to your heart, wars and battles.
Truly the anger of Hera your mother is grown out of all hand nor gives ground; and try as I may I am broken by her arguments, and it is by her impulse, I think, you are suffering all this.
And yet I will not long endure to see you in pain, since you are my child, and it was to me that your mother bore you. But were you born of some other god and proved so ruinous long since you would have been dropped beneath the gods of the bright sky."]

The vengeful estranged / divorced mother, pulling the child to her own side, setting it up against the father. While a common story in todays society, it seemingly already existed as a theme ~2500 to 3000? years ago. Truly, man never changes. A big part of the appeal of greek myth, is that their gods are still so very human, and not held to a divine standard.
Still, they are not any less divine in their might - safe for comparison towards monotheistic religions. Guess they aren't "the classics" for no reason, eh?


Disregarding that particular topic; Even if we would shag with a goblin, a race with a maximum lifespan of give or take 40 years, our child would be quite more of our own blood, than that of the inferior species. The resulting child, wouldn't grow out of adolescence for at least 200 years. Even with the slowed draconic developement, that is ample time to shape our offspring.
On the other hand, any child of ours, half-breed or not, would be more of a long-term investment, than a quick boost to power. Granted, they would also have power befitting of such an investment. Any child of ours, could only be matched by a being of power, dependant on its other parent, at least a hundred elite warriors of a long-lived race, in a blunt power show-down at that. (Yes, guerillia tactics work great for all levels of power. Or rather, they work even better, the more power you are able to deliver with a "few punches" before your retreat.)

While the first decade will play out year by year, the second most likely 2 years at a time, I doubt we will "skip over" more than 5, or ten years at a single turn, even in the "endgame". Thats quite the number of turns. Even if I built the game mechanics with the plan of "being easy to maintain and update", any offspring of ours would need at the very minimum ~a month or two to grow up.

Eh? The update? Yeeah, well. The set-up, has turned out to be a bit more than I intially thought. Like always, and still falling for it even when trying to account for it. Shame on me and my project-planning, I guess. Oh, and then there's the weekend, and my second evening of getting "rather" drunk. In conclusion; Le~t's just postpone "the most work I am likely to do on a single turn for this game", a day or two longer, than I first planned. Right. So much for my excuses, I guess?
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RAM

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Re: [SG] Draconic Dominion
« Reply #85 on: August 13, 2016, 04:38:35 pm »

But if we give birth to a hero then there are two heroes instead of just one, us. Maybe if they have plenty of spare heroes then the first one is less important. And external forces can be god-impersonators, evil gods, inferior forms of god... The problem is that of diluting our own authority and reputation. "our daughter but also a bitch" is not panic-mode, it is just "oh, so life gods annoying and randomly dangerous and maybe we would be better off without some of them...". It is not an instant rebellion, it is just a steady diluting of our image that will gradually accumulate problems, such as political conflicts between demigods and their associates, religious splits between people who do or do not like a specific demigod, People liking the cool demigods who go to parties instead of that boring old dragon that spends all its time off in the woods, and, of course, open rebellion after some demigod snaps and summons a plague of rodents to devour a slum...

The problem with divinity is that everything you do is supposed to have some sort of meaning. When you start having descendants then they are an extension of your own being and the "meaning" of their existence and nature is likely very much more respected than the meaning of any given example of our personal behaviour, and our control over it is very much less. I suppose we could try to turn to the dark side of life magic and warp our children into perfect little angels...

P.S.
 No rush on the update, things are going fine. And I am just debating this issue, I do not wish to be dismissive towards other people.
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Bluexdog

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Re: [SG] Draconic Dominion
« Reply #86 on: August 13, 2016, 04:41:26 pm »

Still having someone to carry out our will during hibernation can be useful
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