PPE: Even messier.
juicebox: Why did you inspect Fallacy?
ARGH Part III - The Illuminati Jack A T Mafia ConspiracyI'm tangled up in two major conversations right now. One's the pretty one-sided one with Tiruin, and the other's the discussion I'm having with Fallacy.
I'm somewhat confident in saying that Tiruin is probably town. Why? It's simple: some of her earlier comments on me ooze confirmation bias, a mental shortcut that only really makes sense if one really holds the position one is wildly confirming.
I mean, just look at the following:
[BLARGHABLARGHASANITY]
Hmmm...
My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
Tiruin: You seem confused. You're not the hero here. You're a member of a criminal organization that generally tends towards a Sicilian membership, and you are flooding the thread with guesses about my planning and motives while missing the key element to my approach. You're not Montoya. You're Vizzini, and I, for one, am perfectly willing to go up against a Sicilian when death is on the line. This is particularly true when the iocane powder's in both cups.
...
Tiruin holds her finger up, then waggles it side to side in thought.
Ok, so...if you're scum, that's a brilliant fakeclaim, because it's pretty creative. I mean I'm honored to have such details in my really bland description, but to be honest I'm astounded and leading credence to other details that 'wow he's sincerely scum and doing that?'
Or I'm taking your counterpoint too seriously...
[...]then Jack is either scum-being-REALLY-forward or the sanity issue is something in mind.
Unvote in light of recent speculation, as even if I do believe Jack may be scum, the information being pressed forward is of high testing. Although since Jack was listed as Mafia by FallacyOfUrist (I erased in my notes that this is bussing, or either REALLY ORGANIZED BUSSING AND A FORWARD-DIRECT-ATTACK gambit with crazy flavor), and there's that silly note of me being in Sicily...
...
Hooooooly CHEESE.
Somehow, a comparison of Tiruin to Vizzini based on her behaviour and the Mafia inspect (the Mafia being very much Sicilian, like Vizzini) became a thing not only to be carefully examined, but to be integrated into wild theorizing about my possible plans and plots (which may or may not have involved plans and plots of Fallacy).
Now, Tiruin starts moving away from this general position very quickly. However, she writes in a very stream-of-consciousness style, and much of her writing is very much immediate reactions to whatever she has read at the time. Her posts are, to a great extent, a record of her thought process, and her semi-immediate thought process at that point is unscumlike.
Anyway, these results are a mess. They are a mess, and they can't all be accurate results. There's enough incompatibles that the problem cannot reasonably be explained solely through liars. Something is messing with results. With this many cops, a form of structural inaccuracy (such as sanity) is the most likely problem by far (as opposed to, say, a single framer for some reason). There is no good cause, as far as I can tell, to hold any confidence in any N1 cop result yet.
FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE AGREES WITH ME!
Tiruin: Anyway, let's talk a bit. I cannot help but question this entire sentence: my position isn't really new (it's basically just an expanded version of my "we've got sanity problems" comment with slightly less certainty), and unless you suddenly agree with my snarky dismissal of your framer theory, it's not your position.
Do you now agree with the snarky dismissal of your framer theory?
I've constructed the above idea because I know I'm town--but I also know TDS is town, and thus positioning accordingly.
And, for that matter, how do you know TDS is town, taking into account your agreement with my lack of confidence in N1 cop results? Note that you're portraying this knowledge as equivalent to your knowledge of your own alignment: high confidence. What do you base this on?
That said, given all the claims presented, I move forward with the offer of being the lynch target as of today.
Why propose pure-info-lynching in favour of scum-catching-lynching? We've already wasted one opportunity to lynch scum.
And then there's Fallacy...
Even when an OSG lynch supporter came along, you sat back and let the group-set deadline fly by.
How bout some context on that.
Was really just lazily done snark.
I'm gambling on the possibility that we have a vigilante who is competent enough to realize that his claim is nothing sort of insane. Besides that, if seven powers wasn't enough of a reason to have the town put him up, I have little faith in my vote resulting in anything.
This.
Fallacy: You act as if this context changes anything. It doesn't. BHK was clearly an OSG lynch supporter, context included.
That's beside the point, though. You had time to make an argument. You had time to push for a lynch that you thought would be significantly better than a no lynch. You had time to force people who had not discussed the matter to take public positions. You had time to generate evidence and create a record of debate on a lynch prospect. You declined. Instead, you sat back and did absolutely fucking nothing. You didn't even fight to the deadline and then no lynch. You didn't even try to contribute in another way. You just slumped back and let the deadline pass.
And why did you do nothing? You indicate agreement with BHK's lack of hope, but do not directly answer the question. Was it a lack of hope that led you to not even ever try to get OSG lynched? If so, had you expected a wagon to magically coalesce without anyone trying to bring it together?
I act as though tone is irrelevant because it isn't really what I like to focus on. Fallacy of Urist. Hence: logic.
And this makes dismissal an effective approach to someone noting your tone...how?
I didn't notice him not answering the questions. But yes, I would be quite happy if he answered those two questions.
That's my point. Now answer my question. You weren't paying attention to whether he answered the questions. You didn't bother to pay attention. Why didn't you pay attention?
*Why should you? Well... because I asked, relatively nicely? And because it might help me to work on my own argument against you. Or if you're looking for some benefit it has for you, you can construct a counterargument for each point you put up...
Uh-huh. Well, then. An answer:
Illuminati Meeting - Somewhere in Sicily
"...has been installed." The highest council of the Illuminati golf clapped away as an underling reported another successful plot.
At the head of the table, an ancient man, face wrinkled with the strains of an impossible age, waved the underling off. "Very well. Next."
Jack A T, one of the top operatives in North America, strode in, calm and concerted. "All work successful. The voting machines have been rigged. Our candidate, Deez Nuts, should win 2016 by a landslide."
"Very good." Whispers flowed around the grand table. "We have a new assignment for you."
"Oh?"
"You will infiltrate a school for psychics as a teacher, and meet up with a local mafioso in the school. We call him TheDarkStar..."
Jack nodded. "And?"
"You will... agree with him about a thing or two." Evil, evil smiles crept in unison onto the faces of the council members. The plan was in motion...
I see no factional value in self-indicting, especially for someone I don't trust. Make your own cases.
Anyway, why exactly did you ask me to make a case against TDS and I for you?
Also, in case you didn't notice them,
Deus's questions should be answered.
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Topic: Mind Reading Mafia Game Over, No One Won. (Read 95943 times)