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[Orange Wizard]

Roguelike Enough For Our Purposes

[forsaken1111]

I think a much more important question is: will it be fun?  I couldnt give two shits if someone else thinks it's a rogue like or not so long as it's fun

[zaimoni]

To be fair, Phantom Eden does seem to eschew some traditional roguelike aspects; significant carryover between games (emphasis on significant; yes, many roguelikes have ghosts, but that's very different from Phantom Eden's, uh, Phantom Eden) is the big Thing That Makes This Game Arguably Not A Roguelike, and the lack of ASCII also contributes.

Most modern major roguelikes have a tileset option.

If I were to commit the 40+ hours needed to learn Phantom Eden, it would be simplest to consider the main game based on "multiple sequential PCs"  (Thus my interest in being able to restart from ground zero on request.)  With that modification, the main game is solidly a roguelike (and its closest roguelite analog is Red Rogue -- an action-platformer where you play the wife of the protagonist of the original Rogue.)

[Elephant Parade]

To be fair, Phantom Eden does seem to eschew some traditional roguelike aspects; significant carryover between games (emphasis on significant; yes, many roguelikes have ghosts, but that's very different from Phantom Eden's, uh, Phantom Eden) is the big Thing That Makes This Game Arguably Not A Roguelike, and the lack of ASCII also contributes.

Most modern major roguelikes have a tileset option.

Which is why I said "the lack of ASCII" and not "the presence of a tileset".

Many roguelikes give you the option, but few traditional roguelikes are tileset-only. In fact, I'm pretty sure no traditional roguelikes are tileset-only.

[Cthulhu]

I like how every discussion on a game described as a roguelike ends up being a semantics discussion instead.

[Neonivek]

I hope this might be one of the only games that does something with bone files

It is probably one of the biggest oddnesses.

[Detocroix]

Detocroix: Have you considered adding some kind of "grid overlay" button? Judging distance might be a bit of an issue, otherwise, since the boundaries between tiles aren't clear.

I hadn't considered it before, but I can definitely see it being a very useful feature Thank you for the suggestion! It's on TODO-list now (as a togglable option and as a hold key down to enable option)

[Detocroix]

To be fair, Phantom Eden does seem to eschew some traditional roguelike aspects; significant carryover between games (emphasis on significant; yes, many roguelikes have ghosts, but that's very different from Phantom Eden's, uh, Phantom Eden) is the big Thing That Makes This Game Arguably Not A Roguelike, and the lack of ASCII also contributes.

Most modern major roguelikes have a tileset option.

If I were to commit the 40+ hours needed to learn Phantom Eden, it would be simplest to consider the main game based on "multiple sequential PCs"  (Thus my interest in being able to restart from ground zero on request.)  With that modification, the main game is solidly a roguelike (and its closest roguelite analog is Red Rogue -- an action-platformer where you play the wife of the protagonist of the original Rogue.)

Would you prefer an option to delete "all saves" (Eden + current character) in options menu OR something like a checkbox on character generation to start with all Eden related things disabled?

[Neonivek]

I should state that "A Roguelike with a twist" does not a "Roguelite" make.

Since well... Pokémon Mystery Dungeon to me is absolutely a roguelike without question... and actually one of the best ones ever created.

Though I don't like the term "Roguelite" anyhow... While I am against weakening a definition until it becomes meaningless, I am also against making the definition too strict so that innovation can never occur...

Roguelites should be relegated to games that have strong roguelike elements without ever really crossing into the genre.

All that is important to me for a Roguelike is if the Core Gameplay is in tact.

Heck none of the stuff I found amazing in Nethack (the logical design point on certain things) ever crossed over to other games.

significant carryover between games (emphasis on significant; yes, many roguelikes have ghosts, but that's very different from Phantom Eden's, uh, Phantom Eden) is the big Thing That Makes This Game Arguably Not A Roguelike

Here is kind of the thing... Ignoring Pokémon Mystery Dungeon and a few other roguelikes that actually featured this... Why is "No carryover" a necessary element? Because Nethack didn't have it?

[Detocroix]

Here is kind of the thing... Ignoring Pokémon Mystery Dungeon and a few other roguelikes that actually featured this... Why is "No carryover" a necessary element? Because Nethack didn't have it?

Nethack does have though, with the past adventurers appearing as corpses and ghosts. I personally never found any, but that's mainly because I played Nethack here and there and almost always with fresh installs. I played ADOM a lot more than I did play Nethack

[Mephansteras]

Looks interesting. I'll keep an eye on this.

And I'm in the 'Don't care if it is 100% a roguelike' camp. I care if games are fun. Roguelike is just sort of a broad category for me at the moment.

[Aoi]

Looks good to me, and I'd toss it into the roguelike category, not that the label matters all that much. (On the other hand, how Spleunky, FTL and Isaac gets in there mystifies me.)

The Phantom Eden mechanic kind of reminds me of the storage bin in Sword of the Stars: The Pit.

[forsaken1111]

"Roguelike" is a marketing term used to sell product, nothing more or less. Its pointless debating its meaning because we're not the marketing execs pushing it to sell those products and I guarantee they don't give a shit what we think

[Retropunch]

A game isn't really a rogue-like unless it was developed on and for BSD UNIX. There. End of discussion.
--

This does look awesome, the one thing I'd suggest to the developers is to make sure there's tons of rare stuff. By that I don't just mean 'oh some hidden text/a rare weapon' but some areas that just don't generate often, NPCs that don't always spawn, some major game changes that may or may not happen.

One of the big reasons that DCSS has continued to be so beloved is that it has such a lot of content that's pretty rare, and you certainly won't come across all/most of it in a couple of games. More than that, some of it you HAVE to pass by, because you're just not equipped to deal with it. Most games now sort of say 'here's something rare and have it immediately oh god look at how amazing it is' whereas DCSS just doesn't care if you see it or not - and that's pretty damn sexy.


 

[nenjin]

This does look awesome, the one thing I'd suggest to the developers is to make sure there's tons of rare stuff. By that I don't just mean 'oh some hidden text/a rare weapon' but some areas that just don't generate often, NPCs that don't always spawn, some major game changes that may or may not happen.

Also why Binding of Isaac is adored. A good [insert your preferred genre label here] game invites you to replay because it reveals more content to you in a way that doesn't insult your intelligence or disrespect your time.

A game that says "please playthrough the whole game again with no real change in experience just so you can unlock something piddly and barely additive" doesn't get more than a playthrough from me.

For example, Salt & Sanctuary is a great (non-random) Souls-esqe game that I really enjoy, with New Game+. But playing it through again offers you nothing besides a) the chance to keep leveling and b) the chance to see the other story ending. Can't be assed to play it through again just for that.