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[Reelya]

Heck some of the more fondly remembered games like SimCity were outright intended as simulation quasi-educational games that just HAPPENED to be good.

Actually the "intended" part of SimCity wasn't like that at all.

The game came out of Will Wright building a level editor for his first game Raid on Bungeling Bay. Basically he decided the level editor was more fun than the game he was making. So the starting point was that he created an unexpectedly fun thing. But the problem was that it wasn't a game. He had also read "The Seventh Sally" a Stanislaw Lem short story "in which an engineer encounters a deposed tyrant, and creates a miniature city with artificial citizens for the tyrant to oppress". So he borrowed that plot to give the level editor a narrative purpose. He also read some book(s) on System Dynamics which is about feedback and control loops. That fleshed out how he'd deal with some of the game mechanics.

So "this is a fun thing" was the starting point, and any educational value came out of the process of turning that into a game where you are a dictator building a miniature city (which is still about fun, not education). It's the educational part that was not really planned for, not the fun part.

[Neonivek]

Fascinating given Will's usual attempts (Then again he did work in Bullfrog AND Maxis)

So the starting point was that he created an unexpectedly fun thing

Dang, I really did imply that didn't I?

and any educational value came out of the process of turning that into a game where you are a dictator building a miniature city

Like many of his "Sim" games they are built off of processes and mechanics that exist in real life so to speak. Though I guess he could have put them in as time goes on.

So some of the mechanics in the game were part of real life mechanics.

---

Though ultimately my bad.

A lot of classic games had the impression that simulating things is fun for the gameplay.

One is Policenauts (Police Quest stupid! not Policenauts) and GOODNESS is that game a mixed bag. They eventually got the right balance... but... Let me take you back to the first game

One of the puzzles required you to... Check all your tires and I believe your mirrors before going out... Which you had to do individually.

Now I THINK, given future Police Quest does this, that it is in the manual... This is kind of tedius.

Yet I have a fondness for the later games basically making you go through police procedure... It is something that they would basically never EVER do today... and that is kind of a shame. Not that I want all games to be bogged down by little details (Heck I hate all games that have a "Drive the speed limit" section... can we skip that please?)... But I felt more like a cop playing Police Quest then I did in all of L.A. Noir... THAT and because the game relies on you following procedure it means that most situations are solved through doing the intelligent thing over the dramatic Hollywood thing.

Mind you it CAN get a bit silly... With the game outright punishing you for not following police procedure by having you immediately killed (I don't mind getting fired... Not properly cataloging evidence is a pretty bad thing for a cop to do) even if doing the proper procedure would reveal nothing is wrong (The game is very Karmic... Didn't check all the tires? Well one of them pops and you get in an accident. Checked them all? Well none of them were faulty anyway).

I guess it is to say I have a lot of respect for the standpoint that having a strong theme IS fun... or at least more fun then taking the "Fun route out".

"Yeah we COULD have someone else collect the evidence and tell you so you can go on a car chase against the enemy blasting away with your gun while going off ramps... But wouldn't it be EVEN BETTER if you could check the crime scene meticulously and highlight every single piece of evidence with a piece of chalk, using cloves and tongs to pick up stuff, and find witness testimony AND not all of this stuff will actually be nessisary for the case but is important to catalog anyway?"

[Reelya]

Will Wright and Bullfrog? I think you're mixing him up with Molyneux. Bullfrog were in England.

[Neonivek]

Will Wright and Bullfrog? I think you're mixing him up with Molyneux. Bullfrog were in England.

I thought Will Wright AND Peter Molineux worked for Bullfrog.

*checks*

Whoops my bad.

[TheBiggerFish]

Can't hurt to PTW this.  Probably.

[Neonivek]

*Throws hands up in the air*

Of course my Windows 10 update issues wouldn't stop here. Now I find out my Xbox360 controller flat out doesn't work for it and I cannot fix it.

Ohh well, according to one site uninstalling the old driver might work.

Edit: Fixed!

Basically the old 360 controller program was incompatible with Windows 10. Windows 10 has its own inbuilt Xbox 360 controller program (and one for Xbox one controllers) Buuuuut the old program blocks it from installing that.

---

Ok here is an oddity from the Starwars universe.

So you have to go into the original (not even expanded) universe for this, but if you ever wondered why they don't just clone Jedi. You might be going "Well of course, just because you clone a Jedi doesn't mean they get force powers"

Well... Apparently you can't clone Jedi period.

I don't QUITE understand why sometimes creators to sort of patch a hole create an even bigger one when a simpler explanation would have sufficed.

Why can't they clone Jedi? Well they can, but they don't necessarily have the Force or have as much of a chance as any other clone. Done perfect!

Later on they do create Clones who have the Force, but it was established in an earlier work that they later developed Jedi cloning techniques.

[BFEL]

So going back to the D&D alignment stuffs, you guys gave me an interesting idea for an evil campaign setting.
Specifically, in the setting that this evil campaign takes place, evil takes the place "good" does in the "generally accepted as normal enforced by guards behavior" while lovecraft is the opposing "evil" force. Good is the Far Realms lovecraft that is weird and unknowable.
Or maybe that's stupid and nigh impossible to do.

[Egan_BW]

That could work in a number of different ways. Maybe the humans or whatever in the setting are normally animated by evil energy, but have some desire for goodness. You can become a better person, but it means becoming an undead.

[Reelya]

I'd suggest taking Ayn Rand's philosophy and translating that to a fantasy world as the starting point for how things could work.

e.g. how would an LE society differ from LG? That's a hard question. But take a look at how we break down politics in the modern world ... we break things up into "issues" then state where different parties/societies stand on those issues.

e.g. let's take "healing" as a fairly straight-forwards fantasy world issue:

LG: "there need to be rules in place to ensure everyone who needs healing can get it, regardless of the costs to the healer and society. I support building more temples and healing centers staffed by volunteers, and funded by donations. People have a right to treatment".

LE: "healing is a service, a service that's necessary for an orderly society, but it shouldn't be free. There should be organized hospitals and temples, but they should charge the full cost of healing onto the recipient. No free lunch. If you can't afford treatment, then the system should in-debt you ans a servant until you pay off what you cost the provider. If you're not able to work as a servant, so can't get treatment and die, then society is better off".

CG: "When people need healing, then rules and regulations just get in the way of prompt treatment. Groups of free citizens should offer healing services on an as-needed basis. I'm completely opposed to the idea of organized hospitals where you have to pay for treatment".

CE: "Oh you're hurt are you? Well I guess I can heal you if you give me all your gold! Those are some nice shoes you have btw..."

[Neonivek]

I'll skip most of the post (I deleted and rewrote this a few times) and say that Chaos isn't disinterested in organization or rightful pay. In fact they would probably have laws, treaties, and what have you just like everyone else. In fact they also believe in authority but in that authority is something you give someone, not something they inherently have (or rather you "earn authority").

Lawful Evil also isn't exactly against the idea of socialized medicine.

[Neonivek]

I've come to a realization...

Ethan Drake (or Nathan Drake I believe) is a pretty lousy treasure hunter with exceptional fighting skills.

EVERYONE finds the treasure before you do, everyone gets ahead of you, and they do so with a lot less clues and hints then you have to go around with.

Heck in one game you discover that not one, not two, but three separate people found the treasure your looking for... before you... (and later a fourth)

[Egan_BW]

And then you kill them all with your guns and claim the discovery for yourself. Heroism!

[Neonivek]

Goodness nothing fills me with more dread then the live action Beauty and the Beast movie.

Now the Maleficent movie was a disaster yet my standards weren't very high. Just have her be awesome! Yet the movie was... very disinterested in doing ANYTHING that would make that character look bad in spite Angelina Jolie being made for this role... and did the disservice of making the main characters from the first movie into jokes (Dang it! don't mess with the three fairies!). I seriously peg the issue of this movie on just being too afraid to make Maleficent look bad... and not in a "She can't be the good guy" because the bare bones story to the movie was fine.

Or heck Cinderella where they were so focused on "Fixing" the original that they just entirely missed the point... yet I also had low standards because I kind of knew the original would bash head to head with modern standards. "Lets make a Cinderella where she is strong and independent. Where she doesn't need anyone, doesn't have to stay at the house, and isn't broken by her environment because she is so strong"... Uhh... Film makers... what is the point of this movie? I mean did you at least focus on her kindness or hard work as a way to kind of make her deserve the fairytale aspect of the story? No? She is just too independent? Well... ok. Will you at least make her actually act strong and independent rather then wearing the costume of one? No? well ok...

Yet with Beauty and the Beast a movie I'd just hunker down and say is The Best Animated Movie of All Time with competition MAYBE coming from The Secret of Nihm... I find my standards become impossibly high. I've promised myself I wouldn't settle for anything but absolute perfection from this movie and the Teaser oddly enough fills me with hope.

Then I watch the movie notice how absolutely no minute of screen time can be considered wasted and the ONLY flaw in the entire movie is one line in one song... with every single song being a great song (Hey Frozen... and your "Fixer Upper" Song... I hate that song) and realize this movie is DOOMED!

Yet I can't let it go... It is like my every instinct is I desperately want it to be just as good or at least very close.

[scriver]

They should've made the Gaston equivalent of Maleficent.

[Neonivek]

They should've made the Gaston equivalent of Maleficent.

Well in all fairness Belle does sometimes come off as a snob.