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[ragincajun]

So I've never really done a project before.  Always been trying to learn new little parts of the game as I go along and military was my latest project.

Anyway, I've built an entryway with ramps down and a hallway dug to connect the ramps.  In the ground floor section above the hall I've built a wall surrounding it with the idea of building a cistern/reflection pool.  It's not huge, maybe 5x20 in size. 

I'm not too far from the river at the corner of the map.  What I want to try to do is run water via pipes from the river to the gate area and then up one z-level (to clear the wall) and then pour down into the containment area to fill it up.  I'm thinking a water wheel is needed to power the water flow through the pipes and then I think a screw pump to move it up the z-level to clear the wall (maybe two screw pumps if I have to go up two levels to actually get over the wall height).  But even reading water wheel and screw pump I'm not sure how to set it up.  Any suggestions?

R=River
r=ramps (at ground level)
W- Walls of fortress
w= Proposed water wheel to move water from the river
p= Proposed piping (to move the water from the river)
S= Proposed Screw Pump

R
RwppppppppppppppppppppS
R                      WWWWWrrrWWW
                                    w  w
                                    w  w
                                    w  w
                                      rrr


OK, still reading on this and I think the water wheel is not needed.  What I'm needing (I think) is a pump stack...but while I "see" how it works on the wiki what I'm struggling with is how to get it to work in my situation.  I need to move the water vertically on the same z-level to get it near my cistern and then use screw pumps going up...I think.

Is there a way to do this without having to build additional mini-cisterns to store the water?  I don't mind building one adjacent to the cistern if I need to temporarily to build the screw pump over but seems like pipes would work to transfer the water but not really seeing a way to lay pipe to do this.

[PatrikLundell]

As I think you've gathered, a water wheel doesn't shuffle water, but is used to power things (like screw pumps).
If you only want to move a reasonably small amount of water the "bucket brigade" is the easiest way. For larger amounts or a more permanent setup a water movement solution is better, and they generally either make use of natural flow (sideways/downwards) or use screw pumps followed by natural flow.
I'd read the wiki page on the pump stack, reread it, and then implement a stack reading the wiki page carefully along the way (at least that's what I did). You need at least a single tile "cistern" for each level of the pump stack, since the lower one needs somewhere to output the water, and the one above needs somewhere to fetch water from. The larger 3 tile "cisterns" that may be mentioned are not needed for water: they're there to reduce the temperature calculation burden for magma pumping.
Screw pumps are powered through a gear or an axle going into the impassable tile of the pump, or an adjacent machine (such as another screw pump). Typically a pump stack is thus powered through the topmost pump from above. It's possible to power a pump stack from the side, but that causes a leakage (although I've seen it said you can obsidianize the power conduit and it will still work).
There are a number of security issues with pump stacks: since pumps are buildings, building destroyers can deconstruct them. The power train is also a possible entry for nasties, in particular flying ones. It's possible to build safe power trains and to protect pump stacks, but it requires a bit of work, and an exposed water wheel may very well have to be reconstructed after a gobbo siege containing trolls (or ogres), so don't have a setup where the fortress is flooded if you lose power...
Water wheels have to hang from something, which typically is a gear or a horizontal axle beside the center of the wheel. You can also hang a water wheel from another, supported, water wheel, so you can span your river with a thick roll of water wheels hanging from a single gear/axle. Since machinery conduct power, all the power from all these wheels is sent through you power train.

[Luriant]

First, you need a little lesson of hydrodinamics.
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Pressure
AND

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You can Channel next to the river.... or you can use a Screw Pump to move water 1z level up.... a dwarf with pump operating, or a connected water wheel/windmill to automatized the process (use a gear and a lever to stop the pump).
If the "pipe" is to long, make a screw pump next to the river and the fortress. You need the extra pressure to fill the pipe.
I think the "pipe" is a Channel or dig in the hole, not a real pipe section that is a component of screw pumps.

As seen in the image (number 2), break a river can make all your fortress at river level or below flooded. Make the water 1 level up is worse if the cistern have a hole.
A screw pump is a technique to build pump over pump, and remove a floor between them permit the power to flow, useful to permanent bring magma to the surface, but not so useful to 1 or 2 levels of pump, 2 dwarves can manage the pumps.
I don't understand your diagram, or your intentions to give more help.

You can't clean contaminants with water, only move them... or worse, see the next page.
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Contaminant

[ragincajun]

First, you need a little lesson of hydrodinamics.
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Pressure
AND

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You can Channel next to the river.... or you can use a Screw Pump to move water 1z level up.... a dwarf with pump operating, or a connected water wheel/windmill to automatized the process (use a gear and a lever to stop the pump).
If the "pipe" is to long, make a screw pump next to the river and the fortress. You need the extra pressure to fill the pipe.
I think the "pipe" is a Channel or dig in the hole, not a real pipe section that is a component of screw pumps.

As seen in the image (number 2), break a river can make all your fortress at river level or below flooded. Make the water 1 level up is worse if the cistern have a hole.
A screw pump is a technique to build pump over pump, and remove a floor between them permit the power to flow, useful to permanent bring magma to the surface, but not so useful to 1 or 2 levels of pump, 2 dwarves can manage the pumps.
I don't understand your diagram, or your intentions to give more help.

You can't clean contaminants with water, only move them... or worse, see the next page.
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Contaminant

Sorry the Diagram isn't clear.  Let me try again...

A...............................B
                   wwwwwwwwwwwwww
                   w            C
                   w            C
                   w            C

So this is all on ground level (Main outdoor area).  A is the river location.
B is my front gate and
C is my 5 (wide) and 20 (deep...North/South) Cistern enclosure.  The bottom of the cistern is the main ground z-level.  I've walled around it.  So I want to fill up this 5x20 area with 7/7 water. 

So, I need to move the water laterally from the river to the cistern wall.  Then go up one (maybe two?) z levels to get "over" the wall in order to then fall down into the cistern to fill it up.

Keep in mind my cistern is inside my outer walls (w) as well.

And this isn't really to "clean" the water.  It won't be a useable cistern (although I guess I could use it).  I will dig an appropriate below ground well at some point.  I just got the idea to make this kind of reflecting pool type thing that would bling up my entrance.  And I figured it was a small enough mega-project to not kill me.

[Luriant]

I understand that the cistern is at the same level that the water in the river. If not... put a Screw pump in the river or in the wall to go up one more level.

If the cistern its at the same level as the river..., make a Fortification at river level, the water can pass (and enemies with water 7/7). Put a raised bridge next to the fortification to secure the zone, open only when its safe and need more water.

~~~~#~~~
      ^ Open bridge

OR

Make a chanel-dig-channel under the wall, the water can go down and go up to fill the cistern. The problem is grates/horizontal bars can be destroyed. But you have another problem...Water for a undammed river (if the river touch the ocean, is dammed), have a problem with pressure. See the wiki about pressure to understand. The water can't move up in the u bend, under the wall, because the river don't have natural pressure. You need a Screw pump to make pressure.

Out     In
~~~W~~   Z1
WW~~~W  Z0

OR

A pump over the wall. Make a grate/horizontal bar, and building destroyers under the grate can enter. Put a diagonal wall at the bottom of the cistern to limit the maximum high.

  WWWWW  Z2
  W_%%~   Z1
~~~WW~X Z0

Diagonal wall, from the up side. Water lose the pressure when only can travel in diagonal.
WWWW
~W~~
W~~~
WWWW

[Daris]

I might build a raised aqueduct to bring the water into the pool, so that I could deconstruct it afterward and have just the pool without the channel that brought in the water.

To accomplish, build a screw pump on the edge of the river, then wall in the outlet and continue those walls toward your pool.  As long as your gate is at least 3 wide, you can continue to use it while pumping in water.

When the walls end at your pool, build another screw pump to pull the water over the pool wall.  When satisfied with the water level, you can deconstruct the pumps and channel and clean up the mud with flooring.

From the side it would look like this:

Code: [Select]

        SS
SS_______WPPPW
RGGGGGGGGGGGGG

With R being your river, G being ground, ___ being a walled-in aqueduct, S your screw pumps, and W the walls around your Pool.

This presumes that your area is secure enough for your dwarves to spend a lot of time outside constructing and deconstructing things, that your gate is wide enough to run a wall down the center of it and still have usable space, and that you don't mind deactivating whatever security measures you have in/at your gate.  So, there are limitations.

[ragincajun]

So here's a screen shot of my attempt.

I've set a small pond area that I've run a channel to the river (off to the west).  I've got one screw pump set up between the pond (to pull from the south) and the small reservoir just north of the pump.  I've started that pump....but nothing happened...

Then I have set up a second SP on the upper level set to pull from the west and directed into the main cistern area.

As noted, no water flow from the first screw pump.  So can't fill the small reservoir to try to move the water up over the wall in to the cistern area.

[ragincajun]

Here's the upper level as well...and the SP on this level is the only place the game allowed me to put it up there.

I'm thinking that won't work because it's over the wall of the small holding pond below.

[Daris]

Screw pumps bring fluid up from the level below them to the level upon which they are built.  So your first screw pump is pumping into a wall.  This setup could work if you deconstruct the wall immediately in front of the lower pump and extend the walls around the output tile.

[Fleeting Frames]

Upper pump seems to suffer from same problem of "wall in the way"; Can't tell which way it faces, but it either tries to pump into a wall too or pull from a wall ( the screw pump draws from level beneath, but a construction - even stairs - above the water inlet will block the flow ).

[Daris]

Fleeting Flames is correct.  Build another wall in this tile:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Then move your upper screw pump here:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

pumping from the west.

[PatrikLundell]

It can be noted that a pump can draw fluid through a grate, but that's the only construction supporting it.

[ragincajun]

Upper pump seems to suffer from same problem of "wall in the way"; Can't tell which way it faces, but it either tries to pump into a wall too or pull from a wall ( the screw pump draws from level beneath, but a construction - even stairs - above the water inlet will block the flow ).

One problem I see here...if I extend the wall around the pump...won't my dwarf drown when he tried to pump it?

[ragincajun]

So what I've done on the main level is the following:
1. Extended the walls of the holding cisterns (main level) to the south along both sides of the pump.  Then removed the wall immediately to the north of the pump as noted in the above comment.
2. Placed a floor over the top left corner of the pit (with water in it) to allow a dwarf to stand on it to access the pump.
3. Had the dwarf activate the pump.

No water flow at all



So as noted...
1. Without the floor the dwarf cannot access the pump.
2. The pumps can only be placed on solid ground; if I put the "input" end of the pump over the water it turns red and will not allow placement.

[Daris]

Let me start with first principles.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This pumps magma from the Input tile, which must be 1-z below the pump, to the Output tile, which is on the same z as the pump.  The yellow + is on the tile where the operator must stand in order to operate the pump.

Because I don't want magma going everywhere, I enclosed the output tile and the pump tile immediately next to it.  This is because fluids can go diagonally, and they will go diagonally to either side of the pump output if you don't enclose the pump tile next to the output.

However, you cannot fully enclose the business end of the pump, because that's where the operator must stand.  Nor do you need to.

The Input tile needs to be open, so that the pump can access the fluid below it.

eta: here's a look without all the fat words covering stuff up

Spoiler (click to show/hide)