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Author Topic: Anyone ever read those Clinton emails?  (Read 5134 times)

mainiac

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Re: Anyone ever read those Clinton emails?
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2016, 11:45:32 am »

Stuff that's TS/SCA is usually unmistakable in its sensitivity.

Dude, you dont need to be vague.  We have the emails.  Show me the examples of what is unmistakable.  Quote me something.

So either she lied about the lack of classified material, or she lied about being well aware of the classification requirements. You can make a (flimsy, IMHO) argument that the low-level classified stuff was easy to assume it wasn't classified. Stuff that's TS/SCA is usually unmistakable in its sensitivity.

She did not knowingly transmit any classified information.  The closest anything came to being marked classified is the two emails in the OP.  And that wasn't something she originated, that was just something in a quote pyramid that she sent.

This isn't "she gave the Reich blueprints to our 75mm cannon!  Send her to rot!"  This is "she mentioned a plan to make a phone call which wasn't yet public knowledge."

I'm not exactly shitting myself with fear that the Chinese had access to this information a few hours before it was included in the press release.  We aren't talking about a FOMC statement.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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sluissa

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Re: Anyone ever read those Clinton emails?
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2016, 01:17:52 pm »

A: Why did this escape the ameripol thread?

B: What about the other hundred or so "classified" emails that were mentioned by several sources including the FBI?

C: Is this irony? https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/29265
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mainiac

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Re: Anyone ever read those Clinton emails?
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2016, 01:28:47 pm »

A: Why did this escape the ameripol thread?

Because that's politics while this is a conspiracy theory thread.  Also, they asked me not to post there.


B: What about the other hundred or so "classified" emails that were mentioned by several sources including the FBI?

"the FBI" in this case meaning "anonymous sources" claiming to have intimate knowledge?  Well gee

Quote
C: Is this irony? https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/29265

It's a little bit ironic but you will see that even that email talks about the need to protect diplomatic cables, not lunch plans.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 01:32:13 pm by mainiac »
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Flying Dice

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Re: Anyone ever read those Clinton emails?
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2016, 01:32:24 pm »

Quote
And if this is wikileaks can get, what can the Chinese or other able to secure?

Bravo, Mark.
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mainiac

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Re: Anyone ever read those Clinton emails?
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2016, 01:40:51 pm »

Your meaning being...?  Is it that they could get these emails?  Yeah the Chinese can probably get emails that have been publicly declassified and published by the government.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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RedKing

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Re: Anyone ever read those Clinton emails?
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2016, 01:48:59 pm »

Stuff that's TS/SCA is usually unmistakable in its sensitivity.

Dude, you dont need to be vague.  We have the emails.  Show me the examples of what is unmistakable.  Quote me something.
I'm referring to the emails which couldn't be released to Congress due to their classification level, not the wikileaks dump.


Quote
So either she lied about the lack of classified material, or she lied about being well aware of the classification requirements. You can make a (flimsy, IMHO) argument that the low-level classified stuff was easy to assume it wasn't classified. Stuff that's TS/SCA is usually unmistakable in its sensitivity.

She did not knowingly transmit any classified information.  The closest anything came to being marked classified is the two emails in the OP.  And that wasn't something she originated, that was just something in a quote pyramid that she sent.

This isn't "she gave the Reich blueprints to our 75mm cannon!  Send her to rot!"  This is "she mentioned a plan to make a phone call which wasn't yet public knowledge."

I'm not exactly shitting myself with fear that the Chinese had access to this information a few hours before it was included in the press release.  We aren't talking about a FOMC statement.
Obfuscation. Content isn't the issue here, it's policy. As I have said before, go violate security policy where you work, then try to use "hey no harm, no foul" as your defense.


This isn't getting better for her.
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At a contentious hearing of the House oversight committee, Mr. Comey acknowledged under questioning that a number of key assertions that Mrs. Clinton made for months in defending her email system were contradicted by the F.B.I.’s investigation.

Mr. Comey said that Mrs. Clinton had failed to return “thousands” of work-related emails to the State Department, despite her public insistence to the contrary, and that her lawyers may have destroyed classified material that the F.B.I. was unable to recover. He also described her handling of classified material as secretary of state as “negligent” — a legal term he avoided using when he announced on Tuesday that “no reasonable prosecutor” would bring a case against her.

The F.B.I. director repeatedly suggested that someone in the federal government who had done what Mrs. Clinton and her aides did would probably be subject to administrative sanctions.

Asked whether those sanctions could include firing or the loss of security clearance, Mr. Comey said that they could. While an F.B.I. employee who mishandled classified evidence in the way that Mrs. Clinton did would not be prosecuted either, he said sternly, “they would face consequences for this.”

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Republicans were not mollified, and they expressed particular frustration with Mr. Comey when he said that the F.B.I. did not examine Mrs. Clinton’s statements to Congress about her email server to determine whether she had perjured herself.

Mr. Comey said to do that would have required a formal request from Congress, known as a referral.

“You’ll have one in the next few hours,” responded Representative Jason Chaffetz, the Utah Republican who is the committee chairman. His office said later that the committee would probably issue the referral on Friday, a move that would ensure their scrutiny of Mrs. Clinton’s emails extends past the end of the criminal case.

The State Department is also reopening an internal review looking at possible disciplinary action against current employees who may have been involved in the handling of Mrs. Clinton’s emails.

So, to wit:

1. The FBI Director who recommended no indictment has indicated that the facts don't match her testimony.
2. He has indicated that anyone else in the Federal government who had done this would be facing penalties and probably dismissal, revocation of security clearance, etc.
3. He has left the door open for Congress to request the FBI to open a perjury investigation, which they are leaping on like a hungry dog on a filet mignon.

If you'll care to remember, it wasn't the blowjob that got Bill in hot water, it was lying about the blowjob. The emails may not be what sinks Hillary, but rather lying about them.
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mainiac

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Re: Anyone ever read those Clinton emails?
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2016, 02:03:12 pm »

Obfuscation. Content isn't the issue here, it's policy. As I have said before, go violate security policy where you work, then try to use "hey no harm, no foul" as your defense.

And that is not the defense.

See the problem I have with you Redking is that you start out conversations politely but you quickly and inevitably resort to straw man arguments.  This is a prime example of how you have invented a false position to argue against.  Any attempt to discuss the actual merits of the case first have to wade through the conversational chaff.

I am going to ask that you leave the thread for this reason.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Anyone ever read those Clinton emails?
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2016, 02:08:23 pm »

Eyo Mainiac you just strawmanned RedKing

mainiac

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Re: Anyone ever read those Clinton emails?
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2016, 02:13:54 pm »

Seriously, LW, wtf?
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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RedKing

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Re: Anyone ever read those Clinton emails?
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2016, 05:33:00 pm »

Obfuscation. Content isn't the issue here, it's policy. As I have said before, go violate security policy where you work, then try to use "hey no harm, no foul" as your defense.

And that is not the defense.

See the problem I have with you Redking is that you start out conversations politely but you quickly and inevitably resort to straw man arguments.  This is a prime example of how you have invented a false position to argue against.  Any attempt to discuss the actual merits of the case first have to wade through the conversational chaff.

I am going to ask that you leave the thread for this reason.
Then what, pray tell, is the defense? You're explicitly stating that

Quote
This isn't "she gave the Reich blueprints to our 75mm cannon!  Send her to rot!"  This is "she mentioned a plan to make a phone call which wasn't yet public knowledge."

ergo, making an argument that because the content (to your knowledge) was seemingly innocuous, the gravity of the situation doesn't warrant penalties or charges. If this is not your argument, then why make the comment?
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mainiac

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Re: Anyone ever read those Clinton emails?
« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2016, 05:46:31 pm »

Yes RedKing.  You got me.  I am James Comey.  I am the one who is making legal judgements about whether what Clinton did was right or wrong.  I didn't want to explain my true reasons to Congress but what I'm posting here on the Bay12 forums is actually my real motivations.  This isn't me providing broader context, it is what I, as James Comey, secretly think.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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RedKing

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Re: Anyone ever read those Clinton emails?
« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2016, 06:05:50 pm »

If you don't want to answer the question, you can just say so.


You weren't making your statements as "James Comey thinks X", therefore I have to assume that this is *your* argument in defense of Clinton. If it is, then man up and defend it. If not, then whose argument is it? And if no one's, then why bother making it?
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Anyone ever read those Clinton emails?
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2016, 06:07:19 pm »

Yes RedKing.  You got me.  I am James Comey.  I am the one who is making legal judgements about whether what Clinton did was right or wrong.  I didn't want to explain my true reasons to Congress but what I'm posting here on the Bay12 forums is actually my real motivations.  This isn't me providing broader context, it is what I, as James Comey, secretly think.
RedKing didn't say you were James Comey though

Also in related news:
Quote
In the aftermath of FBI Director James Comey’s recommendation against charges for Hillary Clinton’s email server, typical Republican and left-wing anti-establishment outrage flooded the media. Clinton’s “extreme carelessness,” they said, was more damaging to American national security than Edward Snowden’s, David Petraeus’s, and Bradley Manning’s violations, and thus demanded a proportionate punishment. Though Snowden himself seems puzzled with the verdict, the Comey’s statement was well-reasoned on the issues of intent in the criminal prosecution of national security violations.

What differentiates Snowden’s, Petraeus’s, and Manning’s cases from Clinton’s was that the former three individuals intentionally distributed classified information to unauthorized individuals. Snowden turned over documents on the PRISM program, among other government operations, to The Guardian. Petraeus gave confidential information to Paula Broadwell, his biographer. Bradley Manning sent documents to WikiLeaks. It does not matter whether, in the end, any of these individuals’ actions were morally right or wrong.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anhvinh-doanvo/explaining-snowden-petrae_b_10866318.html
So the lesson here is that Snowden, Petraeus and Manning should have incompetently leaked their files instead of deliberately leaking them

Quote
He added: “If an ordinary worker at the State Department or the CIA … were sending details about the security of embassies, which is alleged to be in her email, meetings with private government officials, foreign government officials and the statements that were made to them in confidence over unclassified email systems, they would not only lose their jobs and lose their clearance, they would very likely face prosecution for it.”
Edward Snowden

And so God turned Edward into a pillar of salt

mainiac

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Re: Anyone ever read those Clinton emails?
« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2016, 06:26:48 pm »

If you don't want to answer the question, you can just say so.

If you want to be passive aggressive, you can just say so.

To see why it's not illegal why dont you just read:
https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b.-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clintons-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system

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In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.

BTW: Snowden can take his salt and shove it up his self righteous ass.  Because he clearly violates this standard in all regards.  He clearly had intention, it was vast quantities, he showed disloyalty and he made no effort whatsoever to comply.  A citizen can in good conscience decide that justice demands civic disobedience but he doesn't have a leg to stand on in pretending it's a double standard.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 06:46:53 pm by mainiac »
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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RedKing

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Re: Anyone ever read those Clinton emails?
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2016, 06:46:52 pm »

That's Comey's opinion and recommendation. The evidence which he then cited in his press conference (and which he has expanded upon in later testimony yesterday and today) would seem to be contraindicative of that conclusion.

Besides, criminality is not necessary to be censurable conduct. As Comey himself has stated numerous times, this same conduct, had it been an FBI employee, would have been punishable by revocation of security clearance, dismissal and potentially civil fines, even in the absence of criminal penalties. The State Department is reopening its probe to determine if administrative penalty should be levied against Clinton and/or her aides (tougher to levy on Clinton as she's no longer part of State), and this doesn't even enter into the potential perjury issue.


What are your goalposts for "nothing to see here, let's move on"? Is it lack of criminal charges? Lack of administrative penalty? Lack of any contradiction from sworn testimony?
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