Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[SirQuiamus]

The question is - if you have certain privileges available only to citizens, how should you go about ensuring that only citizens are exercising those privileges?  Barring some kind of identification registry - how would you do it?

How about not barring some kind of an identification registry, because that shit has worked reasonably well in quite a few countries that might or might not be socialist in any way.

[martinuzz]

Meanwhile, Trump could really screw up Mexicos (and by extension, the US's) economy.

Can't people just simply reroute their money through Africa or something? Western Union might see a rise in customers.

[McTraveller]

200,000,000 immigrants per year to maintain a stable population.

Methinks you got a zero or two wrong somewhere in there - the entire population of the US is only ~330,000,000.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

... = 3,751,000,000 illegal immigrants PER YEAR and our population levels be about average.

I think you messed up your numbers somewhere.  There's only 7 billion people in the world.

[EnigmaticHat]

I'm going to add that Mexican immigrant is a political issue for reasons of democratic politics of population.  As anyone who has ever lived in California can attest, there's a large latino population in the US that chose to stay after their land was conquered from Mexico.  Despite being American in every sense of the word, they show up on population statistics as Hispanic which is associated with immigration.  The legal US hispanic population is 50 million, while the illegal immigrant population regardless of race is 11-12 million.

The logic goes that US is a white nation, which means that (like shareholders in a company) we most maintain 50% or lose control of the country.  Right now, we only have 63% of the population, while Hispanics are the largest population size.  So people, even large legit news companies, are fond of saying things like "Hispanic population growing, whites to be minority by 2050."  This is idiotic because the Hispanic population is still only 16.3%, competing with the 12% black population.  African Americans and Hispanics are VASTLY different voting blocs.  So even if, somehow, the number of illegal immigrants magically gets multiplied by 10x (up to ~100 million), and that population magically gains the ability to vote, and that population magically gains the same voter turnout as whites, white Americans would STILL be the dominant voting block.

All of this is bullshit because this is a secular democracy, and if we wanted it to be a white nation we shouldn't have brought slaves over and we shouldn't have taken land from Mexico.  If blacks, or hispanics, or the rural poor were to somehow to grow to outnumber urban whites, I would still respect the outcome of elections.  I'd be unhappy at losing political power but at the end of the day a democracy means that sometimes you lose, and sometimes your voice is the quiet one.

[smjjames]

I don't see what the practical point of kicking out illegal immigrants is.  Almost half of them immigrated legally anyway,

Uh, if they immigrated legally, then why are they called illegal immigrants? Your statement contradicts itself.

Meanwhile, Trump could really screw up Mexicos (and by extension, the US's) economy.

Can't people just simply reroute their money through Africa or something? Western Union might see a rise in customers.

It's possible that could happen, but their economy has already been destabilized and Trump hasn't technically done anything yet, nothing has actually started yet.

Hell, the value of the Peso plunged when the Mexican President cancelled the meeting.

Also, Trump's ancedote was literally brought to him by a 'game of telephone', just maybe without the phones.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

EDIT OH GOD MAKING RAPID EDITS

Don't forget this spot:

The legal US hispanic population is 50 billion, while the illegal immigrant population regardless of race is 11-12 billion.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

That is the best thing posted in AmeriPol since the salt races.

[SirQuiamus]

... = 3,751,000,000 illegal immigrants PER YEAR and our population levels be about average.

I think you messed up your numbers somewhere.  There's only 7 billion people in the world.

The only way to maintain a steady U.S. population forever and ever is to import and deport 3.7 billion people annually. It is the only way. Praise Trump.

[EnigmaticHat]

Okay, they're probably good now.

Totally personally note not related to US politics at at all:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I've recently started taking ADD meds and the particular drug and dosage my doctor tried first isn't working.  I can focus on tasks better and faster but I'm no better at noticing details and the slow processing (AKA brain fog) is still there.

So yeah, obsessively detailed post in which "billions" doesn't trigger a sanity check.  Shits weird.

[LoSboccacc]

I don't see what the practical point of kicking out illegal immigrants is.  Almost half of them immigrated legally anyway,

Uh, if they immigrated legally, then why are they called illegal immigrants? Your statement contradicts itself.

overstay, duh

[Reelya]

While those figures aren't valid in the sense of trying to maintain a steady population, they are a valid argument against trying to maintain age balance. I'll cite this example:

A 1999 Australian parliamentary research paper, entitled "Population Futures for Australia: the Policy Alternatives", looked at the claim that immigration could offset an ageing population. It found that in order to maintain the proportion of the population aged 65 and over at present levels, "enormous numbers of immigrants would be required, starting in 1998 at 200 000 per annum, rising to 4 million per annum by 2048 and to 30 million per annum by 2098. By the end of next century with these levels of immigration, our population would have reached almost one billion."The paper went on to say "It is demographic nonsense to believe that immigration can help to keep our population young."

Basically, if Australia tried to maintain working/retired age balance by immigration, then within the century we'll have to bring in more people per year than the total who live here now ... so while there are supportable benefits for immigration to maintain population levels if that's needed, the "prevent aging population" benefit of younger immigrants is doomed from the start, because those people age too. The real problem is that the proportion of people working vs those supported (children and old people etc) is worked out by taking the average age people live to, divided by the average number of years a person works. Adding more people doesn't change those averages.

[misko27]

In the distant future of 2017, America remains the foremost immigration target for the world's trillion citizens. Millions stream into the country yearly, outraging conservatives who say they see a decrease in QOL in the massive sprawling Sanctuary Megacities of California and other places.

I don't see what the practical point of kicking out illegal immigrants is.  Almost half of them immigrated legally anyway,

Uh, if they immigrated legally, then why are they called illegal immigrants? Your statement contradicts itself.

Meanwhile, Trump could really screw up Mexicos (and by extension, the US's) economy.

Can't people just simply reroute their money through Africa or something? Western Union might see a rise in customers.

It's possible that could happen, but their economy has already been destabilized and Trump hasn't technically done anything yet, nothing has actually started yet.

Hell, the value of the Peso plunged when the Mexican President cancelled the meeting.

Also, Trump's ancedote was literally brought to him by a 'game of telephone', just maybe without the phones.

Idea: What if we just annex Mexico? It would stop the millions of people that immigrate illegally each year, because now they'd already be here! Plus Mexico has a much shorter southern border, so we can still build the wall. Everyone wins except the people who hate Mexicans and the white power people (similar, but distinct groups), so we can annex Canada as well in order to balance out the white population. Easy.

... = 3,751,000,000 illegal immigrants PER YEAR and our population levels be about average.

I think you messed up your numbers somewhere.  There's only 7 billion people in the world.

The only way to maintain a steady U.S. population forever and ever is to import and deport 3.7 billion people annually. It is the only way. Praise Trump.

So we can try building a wall, but so many people come into the country they'll just stand on each other's shoulders to climb over it.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I've recently started taking ADD meds and the particular drug and dosage my doctor tried first isn't working.  I can focus on tasks better and faster but I'm no better at noticing details and the slow processing (AKA brain fog) is still there.

So yeah, obsessively detailed post in which "billions" doesn't trigger a sanity check.  Shits weird.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Mine don't help much with that either. I've just developed a habit where I have to double-check everything, like my spelling, my counting, my arguments, where I'm supposed to go, what time I'm supposed to be there, whether I have my keys and wallet, etc...

[EnigmaticHat]

Ok, I'm going to just summarize the math on my post since I committed unit butchery and no one is going to take it seriously.

US population is shrinking without immigrants.  We need 240,000 immigrants per year to maintain population, right now we gain 500,000 through naturalization of illegals and 500,000 through legal immigration.  We need ~2,750,000 immigrants to have the average growth for the world population, but on the other hand we don't really *need* average population growth.  Point is the amount of immigration going on now is hardly an apocalypse, especially since they take jobs others wouldn't go for.

Anyone who tells you white people are going to be a minority to Hispanics is talking out of their ass.  You don't even need statistics for that one.

Here, have a comedic video that can talk unlike me.

[smjjames]

And the reason why our (and Europes and Japans, and most of the West) population is shrinking is simply age demographics. There was a population boom after WWII, but the birth rate didn't stay there, it went back to normal rates, plus the fact that the baby boomer generation is, well, dying off slowly, to put it bluntly. Simply put, we are just seeing the population drop because there wasn't an accompanying and stable increase in the birth rate to keep the populations at the levels that they are now.

Anyone who tells you white people are going to be a minority to Hispanics is talking out of their ass.  You don't even need statistics for that one.

I'm gonna ask you to provide a source for that.