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Author Topic: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0  (Read 1423799 times)

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0
« Reply #18015 on: January 21, 2017, 07:07:24 pm »

In the spirit of Our Leader, I've officially decided to switch over from hoping for the good of all within government for the sake of a rising tide, to reveling in how badly Trump is going to damage the image of the GOP. In that spirit, let's review the prediction list:
Alright, I'll formally predict the future again, fear my latent reality warping might:

Trump Impeached During First Term:20%

Trump Loses 2020: 60%

Trump Impeached During Second Term: 5%

Full-Trump Timeline:15%



Eternal Lame Duck Trump: 35%

Mike Pence Brainslug Trump: 20%

Literal Figurative War With Congress Trump: 30%

Nightmare Effective Trump: 10%

Secret Sauce God-Emperor Trump: 5%



Democrats Nominally Get Shit Together: 45%

Democrats Become Social Justice Losers:25%

Democrats Embrace Unity Above Division: 25%

Permanent Republican "Majority": 5%



NASA Becomes Useless, Thanks Trumpbama: 85%

NASA Founds Space Force, Fights Nobody: 10%

Mars Landing: 30%

Moon Landing: 10%

EM Drive Works As Advertised: 25%

EM Drive Breaks Physics, NASA Director Holds Humanity Hostage With Relativistic Kill Vehicle And Unites Species: 2%
As we all know, the might of my latent psychic powers will ensure most of this comes true.
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smjjames

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0
« Reply #18016 on: January 21, 2017, 07:09:57 pm »

Dear god. It's not even that he will be an authoritarian leader- he wants the implicit and forced respect of one but doesn't understand how to actually achieve it.

He's literally a person going around demanding respect and throwing hissy fits when people point out how little he deserves it. And we get this man as president for 4 years.

Authoritarians and dictators usually do it by force, whether implied, threatened, or actual, which he wouldn't be able to get away with here. Though evidently he's free to bash the media all day if he wished to. Plus a charismatic magnet support of more than half of the people, which he doesn't have either.

Not to mention that he brags about the size and greatness of things so much that you wonder if he is compensating for something.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 07:11:53 pm by smjjames »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0
« Reply #18017 on: January 21, 2017, 07:18:17 pm »

You say a nation can attack a corporation where it hurts most. But why would a global institution not be able to do the same, with the difference being that the affected company has no refuge to move to?
I'd say nation states are a social unit that can be readily abused by corporate interests. Divide and conquer.
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Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0
« Reply #18018 on: January 21, 2017, 07:21:12 pm »

EM Drive Breaks Physics, NASA Director Holds Humanity Hostage With Relativistic Kill Vehicle And Unites Species: 2%
As we all know, the might of my latent psychic powers will ensure most of this comes true.

I, for one, welcome our future scientist overlords.
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misko27

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0
« Reply #18019 on: January 21, 2017, 07:24:19 pm »

I for one would accept a worldwide dictatorship under NASA. Not exactly the technocracy we were all expecting, but it sounds intriguing. Wikipedia informs me that this would bring the enlightened rule of a Mr. Robert M. Lightfoot, Jr., which is an acceptable name for a world dictator I think. As long as he makes it cool and calls it "The Lightfoot Directorate" or something I'll support our new overlords. Can't be worse than any other meme we might elect as world leader, after all.
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smjjames

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0
« Reply #18020 on: January 21, 2017, 07:39:51 pm »

-big text snip-

Such Greater Cultures would take centuries to develop, if it develops at all, and even within the American culture, there are regional differences, unless you take the Maoist route and do an enforced culture, which has it's own problems.

The British empire is a good example. Scotland, Ireland, and Wales have been (and was in the case of Ireland) part of the UK, for, how many centuries now? And yet while they might see themselves as British (subjects or not), culturally they are still Scottish, Irish, and Welsh. Sure, there was a lot of cultural exchange throughout, but those places and the former colonies see themselves as Irish, Scottish, Australian, Indian, and American.

Point is that culture is fluid and major changes take decades to centuries (though it's gotten somewhat faster with the internet) and distant regions will start diverging within a generation or two or get assimilated into whatever is the surrounding dominant culture. It's exactly what happens with immigrants actually, but those imported bits of culture never totally disappear.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 07:42:27 pm by smjjames »
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Frumple

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0
« Reply #18021 on: January 21, 2017, 07:43:08 pm »

What justice is there in having some schmuck from Albania or some other random place have any say whatsoever in the Chile's internal affairs? None.
Nah, I'd say there's quite a bit of justice there when chile's internal affairs are fucking with albania or said random other place, tbh. If someone five states over is screwing their ground water hard enough it's screwing mine, there's probably decent grounds to start enforcing some externalities on a thingjigger's internal affairs. It's still a problem even if by some engineering miracle they manage to keep the mess inside their borders, because eventually that shit's going to break and it's back to being everyone's problem.

Lotta' times internal affairs are a lot less internal than people want to think they are. Oddly enough, political borders don't create physical closed systems, heh.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0
« Reply #18022 on: January 21, 2017, 07:48:33 pm »

Such Greater Cultures would take centuries to develop, if it develops at all, and even within the American culture, there are regional differences, unless you take the Maoist route and do an enforced culture, which has it's own problems.
I see that positively, though I really doubt it is the case that it will take centuries to develop. Two centuries was enough to turn most of the world anglophone, and it came at great cost and destruction to so many cultures before it - best not to force these things.

The British empire is a good example. Scotland, Ireland, and Wales have been (and was in the case of Ireland), for, how many centuries now? And yet while they might see themselves as British (subjects or not), culturally they are still Scottish, Irish, and Welsh. Sure, there was a lot of cultural exchange throughout, but those places and the former colonies see themselves as Irish, Scottish, Australian, Indian, and American.
GOOD

Point is that culture is fluid and major changes take decades to centuries (though it's gotten somewhat faster with the internet) and distant regions will start diverging within a generation or two. It's exactly what happens with immigrants actually, but those imported bits of culture never totally disappear.
Immense cultural changes in the western world have happened over the span of decades, and if you look at the globalized cities, one can walk through global cities separated by immense oceans and not realize any differences exist. Not necessarily a good thing, but neither necessarily a bad thing. Whether you're going the maoist route or the corporatist route of destroying a national culture there is no escaping that you are a destroyer of worlds; I seek instead to preserve, until time naturally renders the nation state dead

martinuzz

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0
« Reply #18023 on: January 21, 2017, 07:58:53 pm »

That said I reckon globalization will continue and there will one day be a global federal nation-state. However I caution that it cannot be corporate-led. I am determined that the nation-state remains for this century the model for prosperity, security and welfare, and it will in time be made obsolete. As the cost of militaries increase, increasingly fewer nations will be able to afford them, banding together in common defence pacts that conduct their own foreign policy as one, until there is no need for foreign policy. These nations will band together along common cultures, becoming greater cultures, looking for the welfare of their people first and foremost. This is indeed, what I had hoped the EU would have been, but the project was started too early, too dishonestly. In conclusion, that is why I think supporting corporate-led globalization will not break corporate power, but will instead help them consolidate it over the world.
I deny nor approve of the current influence of corporate interests on the formation of super-national entities. When I said earlier that I believe that it is nescessary to globalize the world (at least on taxation and labour cost level), in no way did I mean that to be designed by corporate interests, as you suggest.
I think we're mostly on the same level here. I fully agree that the EU project was started 'dishonest', still grudgingly remembering the sneaky tactics that circumvented the referendum voting against a EU constitution, but beg to differ that it was started 'too soon'. I rather pessimistically think sometimes, that it was started too late. EU (as a cultural entity) might have had a chance before Thatcher and Reagan installed neoliberalism as a state religion.
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smjjames

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0
« Reply #18024 on: January 21, 2017, 08:04:06 pm »

That said I reckon globalization will continue and there will one day be a global federal nation-state. However I caution that it cannot be corporate-led. I am determined that the nation-state remains for this century the model for prosperity, security and welfare, and it will in time be made obsolete. As the cost of militaries increase, increasingly fewer nations will be able to afford them, banding together in common defence pacts that conduct their own foreign policy as one, until there is no need for foreign policy. These nations will band together along common cultures, becoming greater cultures, looking for the welfare of their people first and foremost. This is indeed, what I had hoped the EU would have been, but the project was started too early, too dishonestly. In conclusion, that is why I think supporting corporate-led globalization will not break corporate power, but will instead help them consolidate it over the world.
I deny nor approve of the current influence of corporate interests on the formation of super-national entities. When I said earlier that I believe that it is nescessary to globalize the world (at least on taxation and labour cost level), in no way did I mean that to be designed by corporate interests, as you suggest.
I think we're mostly on the same level here. I fully agree that the EU project was started 'dishonest', still grudgingly remembering the sneaky tactics that circumvented the referendum voting against a EU constitution, but beg to differ that it was started 'too soon'. I rather pessimistically think sometimes, that it was started too late. EU (as a cultural entity) might have had a chance before Thatcher and Reagan installed neoliberalism as a state religion.

Just to correct a fact, Reagan wasn't a neoliberal, he was conservative, or maybe neo-conservative in the sense of Reagan Republicans rather than neo-conservatives in the sense of Bush  Blill Clinton is likely the neo-liberal you're thinking of.
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martinuzz

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0
« Reply #18025 on: January 21, 2017, 08:05:07 pm »

Nope, it's the difference of terminology between US and EU. What you call neo-con, we call neo liberal, what you call neo-liberal, we call social-democrat. The term neo-con is not used at all in Europe. It will probably be a cause of confusion for many posts to come.
Sometimes it makes me wonder if the different terminology is a secret plot by the neo-libervatives to create Babylonian confusion. If you can't even name your enemy, how can you fight him?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 08:17:35 pm by martinuzz »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0
« Reply #18026 on: January 21, 2017, 08:05:57 pm »

Woah we all agree
This is highly unusual

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What a highly pleasant discussion of global politics in the American politics discussion thread where all is amicable

smjjames

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0
« Reply #18027 on: January 21, 2017, 08:08:11 pm »

Nope, it's the difference of terminology between US and EU. What you call neo-con, we call neo liberal, what you call neo-liberal, we call social-democrat. The term neo-con is not used at all in Europe. It will probably be a cause of confusion for many posts to come.

And regular liberal here is your version of conservative? And yes, it will be a cause of confusion, heh.
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martinuzz

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0
« Reply #18028 on: January 21, 2017, 08:14:34 pm »

And regular liberal here is your version of conservative? And yes, it will be a cause of confusion, heh.
There's not really an equivalent of traditional liberalism in politics here. Traditional liberals split up and assimilated / turned into the various neo-liberal (con), green, and even labour parties.
If you say 'conservative' over here, it mostly refers to traditional Christian parties.
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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0
« Reply #18029 on: January 21, 2017, 08:16:56 pm »

Nope, it's the difference of terminology between US and EU. What you call neo-con, we call neo liberal, what you call neo-liberal, we call social-democrat. The term neo-con is not used at all in Europe. It will probably be a cause of confusion for many posts to come.
Sometimes it makes me wonder if the different terminology is a secret plot by the neo-libersatives to create Babylonian confusion. If you can't even name your enemy, how can you fight him?

Are you sure about that? Neoliberalism is the idea of minimal regulation and no social welfare net. Neo-cons are that with the addition of social conservatism.

Social Democracy in Europe and the United States is, according to this Wikipedia page, the same, and the most closely associated American politician is Bernie Sanders.
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