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[smjjames]

Would say they more need to figure out a way to get things done without the town and rural voters, tbh. Or at least no more than they have now. There's basically no message the dems can give to those folks that's not a straight up fucking lie that they haven't already been giving for decades, to little avail and less attention.

And how do you propose that they go about doing that? The analysis that I posted a bunch of pages ago (here's a link to part one) shows that the rural/town withdrawl is definetly a problem, however, it's not the only problem that they have.

There may however, be a way to meet in the middle somewhere. Still though, despite various ideas floating around, there isn't any single solid plan that says 'This is our plan, these are the steps, now GO!' and probably won't for months, certainly not before a new DNC chair is selected.

[LoSboccacc]

They just needed a good reminder they govern for the people, not the people. Doesn't seem their attitude really changed yet, but they will do what they need to get votes back, midterms will see to that.

[martinuzz]

A hilarious and brilliant move would be for Mexico to officially apply as a new state of the US. No more illegal Mexican immigrants, voting rights for all Mexicans! Or just fuse with Texas. Texico or Mexas, what do you think?

[smjjames]

We'd also inherit all of their problems, so, no.

[martinuzz]

We'd also inherit all of their problems, so, no.

America is already in all the trouble it can possibly get in, with Trump, so the addition of some Mexican drug lord wars would be insignificant, probably not even noticable.

[Loud Whispers]

We'd also inherit all of their problems, so, no.

America is already in all the trouble it can possibly get in, with Trump, so the addition of some Mexican drug lord wars would be insignificant, probably not even noticable.

Yeah who would notice a war

[PTTG??]

Trump pulled the US out of TPP.

There are those who are going to defend TPP in order to attack trump. This is utter foolishness. TPP was a mistake, I have always opposed it, and I'm pleased it's been shut down. That does not somehow make Trump legitimate or competent, nor would I be at all surprised if he moved forward on a similar or worse equivalent.

[Rolan7]

I actually missed the main marches that were around noon today, sick, but I did manage to walk downtown around 3.  Totally worth it.  Hatched a perfect Onix and perfect Hitmonchan, filled my bag, and held a "community matters" sign for a while.

There were only about 5 of us for most of the hour, due to the rain and being long after the main event, but it was still pretty fun.  Plenty of spare signs in the pile, too!

Later a rival trainer tried to catch us, but his aim sucked.  This is why you shouldn't play while driving   Also he used rotten eggs instead of pokeballs.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

The TPP was also already going down in flames. Even Clinton, neoliberal extraordinaire, had disowned it. In spite of this bullshit thing now where we just assert that politicians really believe what we want them to believe, and not the positions that they claim.

There was some geopolitical thing going down with it too, but I don't remember it very clearly. I think China's objections were gaining ground or something?

[Neonivek]

Trump pulled the US out of TPP.

There are those who are going to defend TPP in order to attack trump. This is utter foolishness. TPP was a mistake, I have always opposed it, and I'm pleased it's been shut down. That does not somehow make Trump legitimate or competent, nor would I be at all surprised if he moved forward on a similar or worse equivalent.

I'd be more confident in Trump taking down the TPP if it wasn't likely to continue his protectorate.

[martinuzz]

Trump pulled the US out of TPP.

There are those who are going to defend TPP in order to attack trump. This is utter foolishness. TPP was a mistake, I have always opposed it, and I'm pleased it's been shut down. That does not somehow make Trump legitimate or competent, nor would I be at all surprised if he moved forward on a similar or worse equivalent.

Aye, agree. Although I must say I'm not rigorously against expanding trade agreements. My main objection is the ISDS, which is an affront to democracy and inacceptable.

[smjjames]

Trump pulled the US out of TPP.

There are those who are going to defend TPP in order to attack trump. This is utter foolishness. TPP was a mistake, I have always opposed it, and I'm pleased it's been shut down. That does not somehow make Trump legitimate or competent, nor would I be at all surprised if he moved forward on a similar or worse equivalent.

I've heard that it would have been DOA in Congress anyway, Obama had pretty much abandoned it too I believe.

Of course though, one argument for the TPP was that not being in it would have allowed China to dominate economic matters in the region.

edit: 4 new replies? That was quick.

[Loud Whispers]

Trump pulled the US out of TPP.

There are those who are going to defend TPP in order to attack trump. This is utter foolishness. TPP was a mistake, I have always opposed it, and I'm pleased it's been shut down. That does not somehow make Trump legitimate or competent, nor would I be at all surprised if he moved forward on a similar or worse equivalent.

How the Trans-Pacific Partnership Threatens America's Recent Manufacturing Resurgence

Some firms have slowly been moving operations back to the U.S. Will the new trade deal undo the progress?
Not all of the dire predictions about the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) turned out to be true, but Ross Perot, who expected a “giant sucking sound going south,” was right—in part. Companies did move jobs to Mexico after the trade agreement went into force in 1994. Robert E. Scott, of the Economic Policy Institute, calculates that the U.S. has lost 700,000 jobs as a result of growing trade deficits with Mexico, and says that 65,000 manufacturing plants in the U.S. have closed since 2001.

Of course, not all of those closings were related to NAFTA—some had to do with companies moving operations to China or other low-cost Asian countries. There are now 12 million manufacturing jobs in the U.S., down 30 percent from 1990. Even with that reduced number, manufacturing still accounts for 35 percent of America’s gross domestic product.

Now that the U.S. and 11 Pacific Rim nations have agreed on the Trans-Pacific Partnership, or TPP, those who follow manufacturing are looking with new scrutiny at the deal, which will now come before Congress. There’s been a resurgence of manufacturing in the U.S. after all, a movement called “onshoring” in which companies move jobs from overseas back to the U.S. Wages in China are rising, and companies are finding that they have better control over quality with U.S. manufacturing operations. Walmart in 2013 announced that it would spend $50 billion buying U.S.-made goods. Whirlpool has shifted some production back to the U.S. from Mexico, and Otis Elevator moved some operations from Mexico to South Carolina. Since 2010, the nation has added nearly one million manufacturing jobs.
Before Trump, Alana Semuels

TPP’s Death Won’t Help the American Middle Class

The Trans-Pacific Partnership would have increased regulations on foreign labor, potentially making U.S. workers more competitive.
Donald J. Trump has been elected president, and trade as we know it is dead. Specifically, the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), the 12-country trade deal that was opposed by both Trump and by Democrat Bernie Sanders, will not be voted on in Congress before President Obama leaves office. With Trump’s vocal opposition to it and other trade deals, there’s little chance that it will be addressed once he takes office either. “Not only will the TPP undermine our economy, but it will undermine our independence,” Trump said in his “Declaring American Economic Independence” speech back in June, in which he pledged to withdraw the U.S. from the TPP.

But there are many things that are lost with the demise of the TPP, and the withdrawal could actually harm American workers. Specifically, the TPP could have established stringent labor and environmental laws in other countries that could have driven up the cost of labor there, thus making American workers more appealing. In short, by trying to protect American workers by killing TPP, Trump may be actually hurting them by reducing the incentive for companies to create jobs here, says Chad Bown, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics, a think tank with a favorable view towards trade.

The TPP essentially took NAFTA, the free-trade agreement among Canada, Mexico, and the United States that Trump called “the worst trade deal ever,” and added a whole bunch of countries, including Australia, Vietnam, Japan, and Malaysia. But TPP’s labor and environmental standards went far beyond NAFTA’s, establishing stronger rules for child labor, wages, and protecting unions and the environment. Countries such as Vietnam, for instance, would have been required to comply with the International Labor Organization’s principles prohibiting child labor and forced labor, and would have been required to permit collective bargaining and establish a minimum wage. Under the TPP, labor standards would have been enforceable under dispute settlement, which meant that if countries didn’t live up to TPP standards, the U.S. could have retaliated by imposing higher tariffs. (Labor groups were skeptical that these new enforcement mechanisms would have been effective.)
After Trump, Alana Semuels

I really don't like it when my doods support something just because my opposing doods oppose it

[smjjames]

Yeah, thats... probably one example why people don't trust media a whole lot anymore, the hypocrisy sometimes. Though seriously, going by the title alone, both articles suggest that TPP would be bad for the US anyway.

I've also heard that it was pretty heavy on giving corporations control. However, I don't know particularily much about it.

[Loud Whispers]

I've also heard that it was pretty heavy on giving corporations control. However, I don't know particularily much about it.

In the UK for example we were heavily concerned that giving corporations the ability to sue our government over a secret tribunal system whenever their policy changes threatened their profits would be a direct attack amongst many things, our national health service - private corporations suing our state if they nationalized industries or maintained state welfare or hospitals. Which would be a pretty big dick move, and Lord knows corporations don't need more power