Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 1067 1068 [1069] 1070 1071 ... 1249

Author Topic: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0  (Read 1419524 times)

Sergarr

  • Bay Watcher
  • (9) airheaded baka (9)
    • View Profile
Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16020 on: December 19, 2016, 07:24:40 pm »

The regime grows stronger: Dick Cheney emerges as surprise Trump surrogate.

Quote
During the campaign, Donald Trump trashed the hawkish foreign policy of the second Bush White House. But now, he and his team are relying on the man most closely identified with that regime — Dick Cheney — to help ensure that Rex Tillerson is confirmed next year as Trump's secretary of state.

As Republicans have voiced reservations about Tillerson’s relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin, Cheney — himself a former oil executive, a longtime Tillerson friend, and perhaps the country’s most famous foreign policy hawk — is serving as a bridge between the Trump team and skeptical Republican senators.
So, how many Middle Eastern countries do you think USA will invade this time around?
Logged
._.

martinuzz

  • Bay Watcher
  • High dwarf
    • View Profile
Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16021 on: December 19, 2016, 07:27:29 pm »

Prosecuting people for their views, odious as they may be, always seems to increase support for them. It pays to be the victim, it seems.
He wasn't prosecuted for his views. He was prosecuted for inciting to discriminate, racism and hatespeech. He was convicted for the first two charges and cleared of the hatespeech charge.
Discrimination, and inciting to discriminate are not views, they are crimes against our Constitution. Same for racism. Hatespeech is borderline and thus hard to prove, which is probably why he was cleared of that.

EDIT: but yeah you're right when you say it pays to be the victim in a case like this.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 07:30:33 pm by martinuzz »
Logged
Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

smjjames

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16022 on: December 19, 2016, 07:55:03 pm »

The regime grows stronger: Dick Cheney emerges as surprise Trump surrogate.

Quote
During the campaign, Donald Trump trashed the hawkish foreign policy of the second Bush White House. But now, he and his team are relying on the man most closely identified with that regime — Dick Cheney — to help ensure that Rex Tillerson is confirmed next year as Trump's secretary of state.

As Republicans have voiced reservations about Tillerson’s relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin, Cheney — himself a former oil executive, a longtime Tillerson friend, and perhaps the country’s most famous foreign policy hawk — is serving as a bridge between the Trump team and skeptical Republican senators.
So, how many Middle Eastern countries do you think USA will invade this time around?

Given that Mike Pence is a fan of Dick Cheney, or is at least using him as a role model for the Vice Presidency, it's not exactly surprising.

(opinion piece)At least one person is already saying that Trump's team is making (or well on the way to) making the same mistakes as the Bush admin.(opinion piece)

Given that there's a bunch of Iran hawks in there, a confrontation with Iran is probable.
Logged

Spehss _

  • Bay Watcher
  • full of stars
    • View Profile
Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16023 on: December 19, 2016, 08:01:15 pm »

Just heard that Trump has won the electoral vote. I'm not surprised the social media faithless elector campaign flopped.

Who's ready for a Trump presidency? We Trumpreich now.
Logged
Steam ID: Spehss Cat
Turns out you can seriously not notice how deep into this shit you went until you get out.

Sergarr

  • Bay Watcher
  • (9) airheaded baka (9)
    • View Profile
Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16024 on: December 19, 2016, 08:05:11 pm »

The regime grows stronger: Dick Cheney emerges as surprise Trump surrogate.

Quote
During the campaign, Donald Trump trashed the hawkish foreign policy of the second Bush White House. But now, he and his team are relying on the man most closely identified with that regime — Dick Cheney — to help ensure that Rex Tillerson is confirmed next year as Trump's secretary of state.

As Republicans have voiced reservations about Tillerson’s relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin, Cheney — himself a former oil executive, a longtime Tillerson friend, and perhaps the country’s most famous foreign policy hawk — is serving as a bridge between the Trump team and skeptical Republican senators.
So, how many Middle Eastern countries do you think USA will invade this time around?

Given that Mike Pence is a fan of Dick Cheney, or is at least using him as a role model for the Vice Presidency, it's not exactly surprising.

(opinion piece)At least one person is already saying that Trump's team is making (or well on the way to) making the same mistakes as the Bush admin.(opinion piece)

Given that there's a bunch of Iran hawks in there, a confrontation with Iran is probable.
"Probable"? More like inevitable. Iran is a part of Bush's Axis of Evil. It's going to be invaded, for sure.
Logged
._.

Baffler

  • Bay Watcher
  • Caveat Lector.
    • View Profile
Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16025 on: December 19, 2016, 08:06:56 pm »

Just heard that Trump has won the electoral vote. I'm not surprised the social media faithless elector campaign flopped.

Who's ready for a Trump presidency? We Trumpreich now.
American Greatness Status:

✓ Great
X Not Great
Logged
Quote from: Helgoland
Even if you found a suitable opening, I doubt it would prove all too satisfying. And it might leave some nasty wounds, depending on the moral high ground's geology.
Location subject to periodic change.
Baffler likes silver, walnut trees, the color green, tanzanite, and dogs for their loyalty. When possible he prefers to consume beef, iced tea, and cornbread. He absolutely detests ticks.

martinuzz

  • Bay Watcher
  • High dwarf
    • View Profile
Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16026 on: December 19, 2016, 08:08:14 pm »

I can see the next election's slogan already
'please make America not great again'
Logged
Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

smjjames

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16027 on: December 19, 2016, 08:15:56 pm »

The regime grows stronger: Dick Cheney emerges as surprise Trump surrogate.

Quote
During the campaign, Donald Trump trashed the hawkish foreign policy of the second Bush White House. But now, he and his team are relying on the man most closely identified with that regime — Dick Cheney — to help ensure that Rex Tillerson is confirmed next year as Trump's secretary of state.

As Republicans have voiced reservations about Tillerson’s relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin, Cheney — himself a former oil executive, a longtime Tillerson friend, and perhaps the country’s most famous foreign policy hawk — is serving as a bridge between the Trump team and skeptical Republican senators.
So, how many Middle Eastern countries do you think USA will invade this time around?

Given that Mike Pence is a fan of Dick Cheney, or is at least using him as a role model for the Vice Presidency, it's not exactly surprising.

(opinion piece)At least one person is already saying that Trump's team is making (or well on the way to) making the same mistakes as the Bush admin.(opinion piece)

Given that there's a bunch of Iran hawks in there, a confrontation with Iran is probable.
"Probable"? More like inevitable. Iran is a part of Bush's Axis of Evil. It's going to be invaded, for sure.

Yeah, given how the Republicans had such bloodlust after that incident. Though given how often the Iranian navy (apparently not always THE Iranian navy, but the naval arm of their revolutionary guards, or something) does antagonistic acts and how hard Trump flies off the rhetorical handle, seems like it would only take one particularily brazen act for Trump to declare war, or is convinced to declare war.
Logged

Culise

  • Bay Watcher
  • General Nuisance
    • View Profile
Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16028 on: December 19, 2016, 11:18:25 pm »

It wouldn't even have to be particularly brazen.  Given all the lovely talk about the Bush administration, a convenient casus belli already comes to mind.  There's a far better case for Iranian WMDs than Iraqi WMDs, not that this is a particularly high bar by any measure with modern hindsight, and it's all but impossible, as Iraq proved, to dismantle such a program to a sufficiently-distrustful enemy's satisfaction. Even a decade's distance and regular UN inspections wasn't enough for Iraq; any and all irregularities or delays could and were seized upon as part of the justification for intervention.

EDIT: Grammar pass and a minor clarification.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 11:21:45 pm by Culise »
Logged

smjjames

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16029 on: December 19, 2016, 11:33:29 pm »

It would be a bloody war though, emphasis on 'bloody', and Iran is roughly three times the size of Iraq, there are a lot more people and a lot more land.

The Iranian WMD thing is certainly a convenient causus belli.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 11:35:13 pm by smjjames »
Logged

Culise

  • Bay Watcher
  • General Nuisance
    • View Profile
Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16030 on: December 19, 2016, 11:58:48 pm »

It would be a bloody war though, emphasis on 'bloody', and Iran is roughly three times the size of Iraq, there are a lot more people and a lot more land.

The Iranian WMD thing is certainly a convenient causus belli.
Rougher land, too, not that "bloody" needed any further emphasis at all.  Iraq had the benefit of being mostly flat, especially in the regions where the population most opposed to occupation primarily resided.  With the mass-draining of the marshes under Hussein (with precisely this goal in mind, mind), the only particularly rough land in Iraq was in the Kurdish-controlled northern highlands, which were friendly to the US forces.  Iran, by contrast, is dominated by the Zagros Mountains that run from Turkey to Hormuz, and in case one of the roughest mountain ranges of Eurasia wasn't enough, the Alborz and Aladagh ranges dominate northern Iran as well.  Moreover, the majority of the population resides in these rough areas; the only flatlands with significant populations are Khuzestan and the Caspian shore, while the two great salt deserts are terrible mixes of ridges, ravines, and sinkholes in which, thankfully, very few people actually live.  The best comparator for Iran in terms of geography is Afghanistan, which is similarly dominated by the Hindu Kush and smaller adjoining ranges that fan out westward.  Mix that with a largely united population (unlike either Afghanistan or Iraq) that is by and large supportive of their government (especially outside the cities), and it's a recipe for a truly nasty guerilla campaign.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 12:01:48 am by Culise »
Logged

smjjames

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16031 on: December 20, 2016, 12:07:45 am »

Yeah, brings to mind of that quote by, Patton I think Douglas MacArthur, "Never fight a land war in Asia".

edit: And those salt deserts with the ravines and sinkholes sounds like a near perfect place for geurrillias to hide in.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 12:22:43 am by smjjames »
Logged

Reelya

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16032 on: December 20, 2016, 01:55:34 am »

If you capture all the vespene geysers I think you have a better chance of winning.

Rockphed

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16033 on: December 20, 2016, 03:47:17 am »

If you capture all the vespene geysers I think you have a better chance of winning.

If you don't care about occupying territory, you just un-mothball all the old carpet bombers and destroy everything resembling a settlement.
Logged
Only vaguely. Made of the same substance and put to the same use, but a bit like comparing a castle and a doublewide trailer.

Rolepgeek

  • Bay Watcher
  • They see me rollin' they savin'~
    • View Profile
Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16034 on: December 20, 2016, 03:57:14 am »

At that point I think european countries start threatening to cut trade deals for war crimes. :/
Logged
Sincerely, Role P. Geek

Optimism is Painful.
Optimize anyway.
Pages: 1 ... 1067 1068 [1069] 1070 1071 ... 1249