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[Reelya]

I'm not going around it, i'm going straight at it. that's the point.

When blacks have a higher crime rate in the exactly same environment you immediately jump to "race caused it" but when ghetto whites do the same thing, you suddenly "have no clue" how crime works. Well maybe you should stop theorizing things based on racism, if you have no clue how the phenomena actually works.

[LoSboccacc]

so now statistics are racist, a number can be racist? ok. also, racism as in, discriminating by race doesn't mean _at all_ comparing numbers about crime, but ok.

[Reelya]

i don't even know what you're talking about now.

My point was that ghetto whites are more violent to each other, so are ghetto blacks. Also, more blacks live in the ghetto. This information is not sufficient to claim that being a specific race causes you to be violent. That's all we can glean from the "higher white on white violence in black neighborhoods" thing. If whites are being made to be more violent because of that environment, then the same must hold true of black people.

I'm not disputing any data, except that stuff generated by the neo-nazi group because i don't trust them to be an honest source.

[Phmcw]

And the obvious answer is : there are known effect of long-term poverty and disfranchisement on criminality. Yeah, a middle class guy of the majority culture won't suddenly turn to criminality if he hit hard times (well not usually), the same way that an inner city youth raised in a culture that see crime as acceptable and law enforcement as outsiders will.


IF you actually want to reduce crime, there are time-proven techniques of providing education, welfare, "communication" (rather propaganda really),... that allow to move them toward sharing the majority's cultural identity. The best way being to remove the borders between the two and adopt their symbols in the mainstream.
Be warned that it WILL take generation for the economical gap to fill, as you have to slowly raise the median level toward normal. Still better in every ways than having crime ridden ghetto, though.

[Shadowlord]

Losboccacc, you make me sad.

[LoSboccacc]

Losboccacc, you make me sad.

so that's a very strong point I'm totally convinced now of the correctness of your position.

[Shadowlord]

Reelya has already explained, but you've apparently chosen not to listen. Thus, me sad.

[wobbly]

Losboccacc, you make me sad.

so that's a very strong point I'm totally convinced now of the correctness of your position.

Pretty sure the points not to convince you, but maybe to look & think?

[LoSboccacc]

Losboccacc, you make me sad.

so that's a very strong point I'm totally convinced now of the correctness of your position.

Pretty sure the points not to convince you, but maybe to look & think?

eh, btw, have you looked at that map? Anyway I haven't come up with conclusions, it's Reelya mostly attributing things to me that I didn't claim, but eh. can't correct data, so it must be me.

[wobbly]

Yeah I looked at the map. Foreign country though, hard to get a proper jist of the areas. Lived in bad neighborhoods before though, tends to be crap no matter what race.

[hector13]

Losboccacc, you make me sad.

so that's a very strong point I'm totally convinced now of the correctness of your position.

Pretty sure the points not to convince you, but maybe to look & think?

eh, btw, have you looked at that map? Anyway I haven't come up with conclusions, it's Reelya mostly attributing things to me that I didn't claim, but eh. can't correct data, so it must be me.

What are your claims?

[Phmcw]

What about my (mainstream) explanation? I live in a textbook area for its execution.

[LoSboccacc]

What are your claims?

I'm highlighting that most sources you can find around*, including the one from Reelya itself, claim mixed racial neighborhood more affected by crime than white only areas, with less correlation to income than to ethnicity (also see: large swath of low income area that are relatively low crime up in the rural north). is that a city thing? a industrialization thing? a ghettoization thing? I do not know. I was pointing out that the original claim as made here of being just a racist point was completely bogus and not based on neither the source linked nor on any other material available

* beware there are lot studies that conflate numbers by ignoring hispanic as an ethnicity, especially the one based on victimization reports.


edit: and I'm gonna add - ignoring the very real racial tension that are building up and squashing every discussion with 'muh racism' or 'soo sad' doesn't really help anyone. but having an objective discussion on loaded topic seems really impossible, since everyone goes to the barricades as soon as skin tone gets mentioned.

[Rolan7]

And the obvious answer is : there are known effect of long-term poverty and disfranchisement on criminality. Yeah, a middle class guy of the majority culture won't suddenly turn to criminality if he hit hard times (well not usually), the same way that an inner city youth raised in a culture that see crime as acceptable and law enforcement as outsiders will.


IF you actually want to reduce crime, there are time-proven techniques of providing education, welfare, "communication" (rather propaganda really),... that allow to move them toward sharing the majority's cultural identity. The best way being to remove the borders between the two and adopt their symbols in the mainstream.
Be warned that it WILL take generation for the economical gap to fill, as you have to slowly raise the median level toward normal. Still better in every ways than having crime ridden ghetto, though.

This!
Also, I hate it when black ghettos are glorified, but it's worth pointing out that a *lot* of rap talks about how horrible they are, and how people should want to get out and live normally.

[Reelya]

Rural areas have low crime because people are generally more isolated. With people coming into contact all the time in big cities, there's more opportunity for all types of interactions - good and bad.

That's the theory anyway, actually you're no safer in the countryside. There are many more violent accidents there where hospitals aren't easily accessible. This outweighs the risk from other people in the big cities, so rural areas are not "safer" in aggregate:
http://science.time.com/2013/07/23/in-town-versus-country-it-turns-out-that-cities-are-the-safest-places-to-live/