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Author Topic: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0  (Read 1391016 times)

majikero

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14760 on: December 03, 2016, 06:49:54 am »

Trump might have just accidentally declared war on China, by acknowledging the president of Taiwan in a direct phonecall, and calling him president in public. Chinese are furious. According to China, Taiwan is a rebel province, not a nation.
Yeah and the whole world pretty much acknowledge this fact. Diplomatic contact with Taiwan is done in backdoor channels. Something Trump would know if he attends his security briefings.
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martinuzz

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14761 on: December 03, 2016, 07:08:01 am »

Can't you guys start a pre-emptive impeachment procedure already, to minimize damage?
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

martinuzz

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14762 on: December 03, 2016, 07:09:43 am »

Trump might have just accidentally declared war on China, by acknowledging the president of Taiwan in a direct phonecall, and calling him president in public. Chinese are furious. According to China, Taiwan is a rebel province, not a nation.
Yeah and the whole world pretty much acknowledge this fact. Diplomatic contact with Taiwan is done in backdoor channels. Something Trump would know if he attends his security briefings.
Yeah, since Nixon's famous visit to CHina in 1979, there has been no official contact between US presidents and Taiwan. Trump really opened up a shithole here.
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

Reelya

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14763 on: December 03, 2016, 07:22:40 am »

Trade war with China sounds like good fun. Let's make some popcorn.

martinuzz

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14764 on: December 03, 2016, 07:26:11 am »

Hmm. CHina's reaction towards Trump is surprisingly mild. They put all the blame on Taiwan. They might invade it. China's 'One-China' law allows an invasion of Taiwan at any sign of becoming an independent nation. If they do - congratulations Trump, you just got your first few million people killed.
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

McTraveller

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14765 on: December 03, 2016, 07:58:09 am »

Not that I condone tactless communication, but if China invades Taiwan because some person (president elect of the US or otherwise) calls someone in Taiwan a president, that's wholly on China, not on the person who used those terms.  I mean, seriously...

As for welfare, UBI, or whatever: ultimately this has to result in some decision of society to decide if it really cares about wealth inequality or not. On one hand, people like the idea of wealth inequality because they seem to think that they might be able to strike it rich and be one of wealthy few (improbable as that may be). On the other, wealth inequality is terrible because unchecked it inevitably (mathematically) results in more wealth inequality.

My personal hope is that we end up with a system where the general public is granted a guaranteed, irrevocable share of ownership of productive capital.  I don't think it should be 100% state-owned, but it shouldn't be zero and it shouldn't be "only if an individual could afford it."

Consider all the talk of UBI - one of the questions is always "where does this originate", which is typically answered by some form of tax. What if, instead, UBI was generated by requiring as a condition for incorporation, all corporations to issue a dividend of no less than (say) 5% revenue minus payroll minus direct expenditures (so it doesn't include goofy things like depreciation or "other charges" write down), and at least (say) 5% of the shares of the company are to be allocated to the public. That is - the "tax" is levied as part of the dividends, not as an income tax.  This has a couple neat effects - one it stops the dumb argument about double taxation on capital gains, and you can't dodge "revenue minus expenses" by things like "oh we have a bunch of factories with lots of depreciation, so even though our net cash flow was +$10 billion, we don't pay any taxes."

If you are also serious about wealth inequality, you tax income not on the amount of income, but on the amount of wealth a person already holds. And I would do it based on relative percentile of wealth, not on nominal wealth value - maybe something like "your income tax rate is 99% times your wealth percentile squared".  So if you are in the 1% wealth bracket, your income tax rate is 0.99% (0.99 x 0.01 * 0.01); if you are in the 50% wealth bracket your tax rate is 24.75%, and if you are in the 99% wealth bracket your income tax rate is ~97%.  So if you have $0 but then get a job that pays you $100k, you pay essentially nothing on that income the first year.  But also, if you have $1M in savings but have $0 income - you also pay zero tax.  This means you can't be "property taxed" to death if you are retired, it means you don't get penalized for getting a windfall, etc.

Of course there are details about how to compute "income"; I would do the simple thing and just say "any time your account increases."  So some definite weird effects, like loans would now count as income (one trick the super-wealthy use today is taking out loans against assets - loans are not income!)  So things like mortgages will have to change because those are loans, but overall it's shaping up to a fairly interesting idea...
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majikero

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14766 on: December 03, 2016, 08:27:18 am »

Hmm. CHina's reaction towards Trump is surprisingly mild. They put all the blame on Taiwan. They might invade it. China's 'One-China' law allows an invasion of Taiwan at any sign of becoming an independent nation. If they do - congratulations Trump, you just got your first few million people killed.
Any news on Trumps response to China? This is the most important part.
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Rolan7

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14767 on: December 03, 2016, 08:54:37 am »

Quote
The words I often see are "hand up, not a hand out".  Also, they expect local charities to take over support net services.  If you pay attention, you will notice that republicans pay significantly more to charities than democrats.  Take Romney and Obama, for example.  Romney paid about 10 times as much in charitable donations as Obama in 2011.
This is fallacious. No charity could ever hope to accomplish even one percent of the efficacy of a state support network. I'm sure Republicans believe in their own concept and thus donate charitably more often, but the concept is just wrong. Charities have no direct access to the population as a whole, only the network they themselves can establish. They don't have government data available to them most of the time either. Imagine if the DMV had to determine if someone was eligible for a passport without being able to tell if they have a social security number.

Saying charities need to replace government support is like saying because your wall has a crack in it you should tear the whole thing down and replace it with a wall of made of caulk, instead of using caulk on the crack. Charities are effective for cleaning up the people who fall through the cracks (see how I set that up it was unintentional but god I'm clever) and evening out system failures, not for doing the job proper.
Keep in mind that they're probably thinking of Christian charities, which do operate on a national (commonly spilling into international) level.  Arch-conservatives would *love* for welfare to come with Chick-tracks or similar...  Surely it would fix this nation's declining morale character /s

Trump might have just accidentally declared war on China, by acknowledging the president of Taiwan in a direct phonecall, and calling him president in public. Chinese are furious. According to China, Taiwan is a rebel province, not a nation.
yeah, that's...
I still don't know who Aleppo is (/s) but I know that you don't broach that subject around the Chinese, fucking hell

Ahaha here's the fricken tweet:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/804848711599882240
I sure hope he somehow knows what he's doing, IE is playing some inexplicable Xanatos gambit.  I do not think it's likely.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 09:02:04 am by Rolan7 »
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Quote from: Fallen London, one Unthinkable Hope
This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.

martinuzz

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14768 on: December 03, 2016, 09:22:00 am »

I still don't know who Aleppo is
Aleppo is the Mayor of Kadhaffi, the capital city of Erdogan, a small country in the middle of the George Bush.
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

Rolan7

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14769 on: December 03, 2016, 09:37:58 am »

Not that I condone tactless communication, but if China invades Taiwan because some person (president elect of the US or otherwise) calls someone in Taiwan a president, that's wholly on China, not on the person who used those terms.  I mean, seriously...
Ehh...
The president-elect is really not "some person", he's a future representative of the USA.  That's probably the main part of the president's role, trying to represent our democracy to other countries.  So it's fair to criticize him for being undiplomatic :P

A friend of mine is gently making the case that this really is according to keikaku, though, and Trump has always been pretty upfront about aggressing China.  Guess we'll see how that goes

Spoiler: Hillary-shill stuff (click to show/hide)
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She/they
No justice: no peace.
Quote from: Fallen London, one Unthinkable Hope
This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14770 on: December 03, 2016, 09:40:52 am »

Tell me that tsundere shark tweet isn't an edit. Please.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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Rolan7

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14771 on: December 03, 2016, 09:47:25 am »

The crying image is ):  The tweet...
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/352796146927796226

Wait dang sorry, this is a *different* tweet about sharks.  IDK man
Found it, the tweet is real and the image was edited.  still tho
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/352795564930383873
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 09:49:30 am by Rolan7 »
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She/they
No justice: no peace.
Quote from: Fallen London, one Unthinkable Hope
This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14772 on: December 03, 2016, 09:50:15 am »

I want to believe Donald Trump is a closeted shark fetishist.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

Rolan7

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14773 on: December 03, 2016, 09:55:53 am »

You probably know about that time Trump called Jon Stewart a pussy, right?
Yeah... apparently that never got taken down.  Even when his team stopped him from tweeting, they didn't dare remove:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/333089735570493440

But don't worry, I'm sure this guy can represent our nation diplomatically, and/or help us navigate a trade war with China without declaring a few bankruptcies.
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She/they
No justice: no peace.
Quote from: Fallen London, one Unthinkable Hope
This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.

Rolan7

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14774 on: December 03, 2016, 10:06:51 am »

Okay before I go out...  A few words about Trump's electoral college win.

"We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and stop this travesty. Our nation is totally divided!  Lets fight like hell and stop this great and disgusting injustice! The world is laughing at us.  This election is a total sham and a travesty. We are not a democracy!  The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy."

--  Trump, 2012, when he thought Mitt Romney got the popular vote.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/11/15/trumps-flip-flop-on-the-electoral-college-from-disaster-to-genius/?utm_term=.f8c3d0a5168b

(And those are the ones he didn't delete!  Yes, Trump actually deleted tweets, but looks like only the ones which literally claimed Romney won the popular vote.)
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 10:08:41 am by Rolan7 »
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She/they
No justice: no peace.
Quote from: Fallen London, one Unthinkable Hope
This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.
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