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[Rolepgeek]

Monopolies aren't free market. *shrug* I think that when Comcast has to compete, it is indeed accountable to it's customers.

[Rolan7]

Well yeah, a "free market" isn't so bad if it's heavily regulated to prevent monopoly
And inspected for safety, and workers rights, and pollution laws...

[Sprin]

We have that now

Yet we still complain about comcast

[smjjames]

Monopolies aren't free market. *shrug* I think that when Comcast has to compete, it is indeed accountable to it's customers.

Except it doesn't really have to compete. Not when companies can agree to not compete with each other in the same realm, such as cable TV for example.

Yeah, that article points out that kids are willing to take risks on the sports fields, so we should be ok with them taking risks down in a coal mine, too. After all, if the teenager has assessed the risks and decided they're ok with it, then letting them operate heavy machinery is no different to letting them play sports. It's perfectly logical according to Libertarian logic.

Ugh, libertarians are like the evil twins of anarchists, they're the reason people want oppressive governments, because the alternative appears to be this.

Leaving you alone vs Mass execution...

Here's the issue with libertarianism.

There exist two main institutions of oppression - the state, and the corporation. The state provides minimal protection against the corporation, and at least pretends to do what the public wants. Think of it this way - there is a wolf who would like to eat us. So we stay with an abusive shepherd who beats us, but at least we're still alive, right? The wolf is the corporation, and the state is the shepherd. Now, I'm not saying that the corporation is worse than the state - that's tricky. The corporation is less influenced by public opinion, and is arguably better at being shady, but the state has an aura of authority and legitimacy.

Laissez-faire libertarianism is like killing the shepherd and then walking into the mouth of the wolf.

Sounds a bit like the Gilded Age.

[Frumple]

Monopolies aren't free market. *shrug* I think that when Comcast has to compete, it is indeed accountable to it's customers.

... you're assuming it'd have to compete, though. Stuff like that, you don't have to account to the customers, you just have to stamp out the competition. And with a lot of infrastructure related things, that's... not difficult, providing you get there first or have enough resources to buy out whoever did. Only so many wires you can run through a single neighborhood before things start catching fire, heh. Monopolies are unfortunately the inevitable consequence of free market, for a lot of industries/markets/etc. Pretty close to all of them, if there's not much in the way of regulation involved.

By and large, the politically influential bits of libertarianism just want to throw out everything even trying to mitigate the effects of that, and then strip whatever protections citizens had against it, too. On top of a bunch of other stuff that boils down to "Let the businesses be free. Good luck, everything else." _{That you'll need the luck is studiously and pointedly ignored, of course :V}

And ninja'd by rol, but eh. And yeah, we do still complain. It could just be substantially worse, and without much difficulty if corps were let loose.

[uber pye]

So how close to a cyberpunk dystopia where megacorporations are the real power? or are we already there, and if so wheres my cyberwere?

[Frumple]

Iirc the first more-or-less-done nerve-connected prosthetic was either done this year or slated for installation in the next year or two. Had relatively high resolution cybereyes starting to work not too long ago, too, as I recall. Never mind the external cybernetic stuff via mobile devices and computers in general.

Most of it's still fairly limited to prototype/bleeding (sometimes fairly literally) edge R&D junk in the medical field, but we're getting there.

[TheBiggerFish]

Meanwhile, a 538 chat oddly supports my theory that this whole thing is a ploy to get Pence into office. Or, at least, in control.

I agree with you on that: http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/30/politics/mike-pence-role-donald-trump-administration/index.html

Shhhhhhhhhhhit.

As much as Trump is bad, Pence is worse...

[Rockphed]

Dictatorships tend to be worse than free market capitalistic societies

Corporations are accountable to their customers, after all, and don't usually have the option of literally shoving large groups of people against the wall and shooting them in the head to dump into a mass grave. Sometimes, but usually only with the approval of the government.

It comes down to who you're more afraid of, which comes down to who you trust less, and who you think is more reliant on external approval. Big Government? Or Big Business? Either one can be dangerous, but if you play them off each other, they balance out. It's when they work together that shit gets real bad real fast, to be honest.

After all, the sheperd can do more with meat then he can with wool, and a sheepdog is useful to have around.

Do you think Comcast is accountable to their customers? Our government already isn't preventing local monopolies, what do you think would happen in an even more libertarian society?

In general, when Comcast has a local monopoly, it is because it was given such by a government.  In exchange for enforced monopolies, companies are supposed to be regulated.  However, when Comcast has enough money to throw at politicians, there is not much reason for the politicians to actually do anything.  Also, anecdotal evidence from deregulating power and air-travel companies suggests that at best a regulated monopoly is still worse for the consumer than a diverse market.

The same thing happens when the teacher's union has money to throw at the politicians who are supposed to be negotiating contracts.

[TheBiggerFish]

Telecom companies literally write telecom regulations in some markets...That's why we don't have municipal broadband spreading like wildfire.

[Lord Shonus]

Dictatorships tend to be worse than free market capitalistic societies

Corporations are accountable to their customers, after all, and don't usually have the option of literally shoving large groups of people against the wall and shooting them in the head to dump into a mass grave. Sometimes, but usually only with the approval of the government.

It comes down to who you're more afraid of, which comes down to who you trust less, and who you think is more reliant on external approval. Big Government? Or Big Business? Either one can be dangerous, but if you play them off each other, they balance out. It's when they work together that shit gets real bad real fast, to be honest.

After all, the sheperd can do more with meat then he can with wool, and a sheepdog is useful to have around.

Do you think Comcast is accountable to their customers? Our government already isn't preventing local monopolies, what do you think would happen in an even more libertarian society?

In general, when Comcast has a local monopoly, it is because it was given such by a government. 

Wrong. Absolutely, positively wrong. Cable companies get their monopolies either by sitting down and carving up the country between them or by buying up all their competitors. That is the entire reason that you only see ads for cable vs. satellite and almost never see two cable companies duking it out - because the cable companies have agreed not to compete.

[TheBiggerFish]

Dictatorships tend to be worse than free market capitalistic societies

Corporations are accountable to their customers, after all, and don't usually have the option of literally shoving large groups of people against the wall and shooting them in the head to dump into a mass grave. Sometimes, but usually only with the approval of the government.

It comes down to who you're more afraid of, which comes down to who you trust less, and who you think is more reliant on external approval. Big Government? Or Big Business? Either one can be dangerous, but if you play them off each other, they balance out. It's when they work together that shit gets real bad real fast, to be honest.

After all, the sheperd can do more with meat then he can with wool, and a sheepdog is useful to have around.

Do you think Comcast is accountable to their customers? Our government already isn't preventing local monopolies, what do you think would happen in an even more libertarian society?

In general, when Comcast has a local monopoly, it is because it was given such by a government. 

Wrong. Absolutely, positively wrong. Cable companies get their monopolies either by sitting down and carving up the country between them or by buying up all their competitors. That is the entire reason that you only see ads for cable vs. satellite and almost never see two cable companies duking it out - because the cable companies have agreed not to compete.

^^^^^^^^^

[wierd]

Iirc the first more-or-less-done nerve-connected prosthetic was either done this year or slated for installation in the next year or two. Had relatively high resolution cybereyes starting to work not too long ago, too, as I recall. Never mind the external cybernetic stuff via mobile devices and computers in general.

Most of it's still fairly limited to prototype/bleeding (sometimes fairly literally) edge R&D junk in the medical field, but we're getting there.

braingate bci chips have been installed in als and quadraplegic people for over a decade now, and they are designed to sit on the motor cortex of such patients. they have been connected to robot arms, mouse pointers, and all sorts of things.

this year? pshaw. interocular retinal stimulators for the legally blind so they can use cameras as eyes are a thing now. there is a resident with such an implant at the nursing home i work at.


on municipal broadband,

the reason we dont see it like wildfire, is because of franchise agreements. it isnt sso much "agreed not to compete", as it is "city gave exclusive use of the easments, and now the incumbent wont share for competing services, and actively sues for breach of contract when a city tries to run new cable on said easment."

[PTTG??]

Meanwhile, a 538 chat oddly supports my theory that this whole thing is a ploy to get Pence into office. Or, at least, in control.

I agree with you on that: http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/30/politics/mike-pence-role-donald-trump-administration/index.html

Shhhhhhhhhhhit.

As much as Trump is bad, Pence is worse...

That's why I've been hesitant to equate Trump to Hitler. Trump is a Quisling. Pence is approximately Himmler.

[Frumple]

braingate bci chips have been installed in als and quadraplegic people for over a decade now, and they are designed to sit on the motor cotex of such patients. they have been connected to robot arms, mouse pointers, and all sorts of things.

Oh aye, that stuff's been around for a while. Was talking actual connected-to-nerve-endings whatsit, which we haven't been playing with much, yet, so far as I'm aware. Want to say it was something that didn't need a chip, just... plug and play, for want of a better term. Iirc it was either an arm or a leg, want to say it was japan or somethin' that it happened in. Some kind of fairly notable thing on that side of medtech, anyway. Can't remember much in the way of details and not even remotely interested in going to check, so eh.