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[Reelya]

This is apparently a very recent thing. e.g. also from Jonothan Haidt's videos, up until the mid 90s, college professors were about 3:1 liberal:conservative. It's now like 15:1. So it's really a new thing that things are that polarized on US campuses.

It probably reflects US culture in general however, people definitely seem to be self-sorting in to two polarized political camps. I've read articles about people who live in conservative areas, yet don't know a single conservative, and not by any deliberate choice.

[PTTG??]

This is apparently a very recent thing. e.g. also from Jonothan Haidt's videos, up until the mid 90s, college professors were about 3:1 liberal:conservative. It's now like 15:1. So it's really a new thing that things are that polarized on US campuses.

Perhaps because the last quarter-century has seen republicans becoming aggressively anti-science.

Why are SJWs liberal's problem, but the Republicans don't have to answer for the KKK and the Alt-Right and the native terrorists?

[Loud Whispers]

Go ahead and call all Muslims terrorists. Allow cops to kill black people freely, who cares? Want to shoot gays yourself? Not a problem. ...
No. I refuse. I will not normalize the ignorance, bigotry, and clannishness that has taken over the right wing of this country. There is a difference between the left and the right, and it is a meaningful one. BECAUSE it does not tolerate intolerance. BECAUSE it uses fact and reason through science. BECAUSE it values democratic ideals over corporate absolutism.

I mean, is this real, or are you just trying to get some kind of 'wew lad' type response?

It's tempting to wew lad, but in the sake of cross-cultural dialogue, I'm taking it seriously. You have no absolute morality that gives you total superiority over the rest of the world and it's a really simple thing to overlook. You could very well make an identical copy pasta about all you said and it would have the same powerfully empty resonance :/
It's this mentality that utterly repulses everyone else in the country, in the world. Only liberals are capable of fact and reason, only liberals use science, only liberals value democracy, all liberal values are universally good, liberals can rationalize everything (even showing intolerance as being tolerant) and only liberals are allowed to be moral, reasonable for their superiority. No one else buys it

Is it really so hard to hold your views and fight for them without going on a moral crusade to condemn everyone around you as inferior in intelligence, degenerate in inequity, backwards in development?

Well of course people see liberals as "condescending" - liberals claim that people are wrong! They challenge people's beliefs! And as for "defensive", well when you attack with ridiculous claims of us being "snobby" of course we'll get defensive.
See? I'm not actually serious, I'm just pointing out how hypocritical arguments like these are. It's some guy saying "look, these liberals are totally snobbish badguys," no evidence or supporting arguments, and of course conservatives will listen and agree!

From my perspective, immediately prior to you making this post there were peeps saying reality has a liberal bias and only liberals are capable of reason or morality
Not really a ridiculous claim is it, seems liberals are very snobby. As I write this I am having wonderful flashbacks to when urbanites bragged how all the rich and educated peeps voted Remain and all the destitute peasants voted Leave xD

it's called TONGUE-IN-CHEEK and SELF-MOCKING HUMOR you british bastard

Self mocking humour mocks yourself

But if calling people wrong is "smug," how do we even do anything?

I do this thing where I disagree with someone and argue my case without calling them a mental invalid or making sarcastic references to how obviously right I am. I always assume no one agrees with me and that I have to demonstrate why my views are valid at all, and I do not assume moral superiority over most matters where a multiplicity of viewpoints is possible and there is no one objective truth

Works for me

...how is this a rebuttal of smugness, though? "Sure, we're smug, but we're also the most right!" is a rather smug sentence, from the perspective of a conservative.

Not just the perspective of the conservative, the perspective of the centrist and the leftist
The USA lost millennial and working class people who voted Obama and the UK lost liberal strongholds in the EU referendum. Smugness has killed liberals

"Yes, we are very privileged, and this is for totally good reasons, also you're wrong." See how anything can be twisted into smugness? REALITY IS ENTIRELY SUBJECTIVE AND MUTABLE to these people. Oh wait, that's smug too.

"Reality has a liberal bias," "because it's 2015," "are you kidding me?" such things are smug, no twisting is needed. Stop being smug is very easy to do. Live amongst your political enemies for some years, learn how to tolerate them, talk with them, and not deride them. In time maybe you'll even learn from them, I've long since found that someone who's worked on the docks all their life has shown greater intelligence than someone capable of entertaining me with a discourse on postcolonial intertextual dialectics

[smjjames]

This is apparently a very recent thing. e.g. also from Jonothan Haidt's videos, up until the mid 90s, college professors were about 3:1 liberal:conservative. It's now like 15:1. So it's really a new thing that things are that polarized on US campuses. It probably reflects US culture in general however, people definitely seem to be self-sorting in to two polarized political camps. I've read articles about people who live in conservative areas, yet don't know a single conservative.

On the living in conservative areas and yet not knowing a single conservative, are you talking about people living in a city in a Republican state or being out in the country/rural/small towns in a Republican/highly conservative state and not knowing any conservatives out there? Also, I remember seeing that figure somewhere of the percentage of conservative lecturers/professors on colleges/universities declining over time, but forget what article.

[Loud Whispers]

Perhaps because the last quarter-century has seen republicans becoming aggressively anti-science.

Why are SJWs liberal's problem, but the Republicans don't have to answer for the KKK and the Alt-Right and the native terrorists?

Republicans are against the KKK, do have to answer for the Alt-Right and Islam does not have to answer for Jihadists

SJWs are the liberal's problem because they are a phenomenon of liberalism. If Republicans made them they would be responsible too, a good example is the UK where both the left and right wing are responsible for the UK's SJWs

[TheBiggerFish]

I think that the reason news has a liberal bias is that reality has a liberal bias...Factually, conservative points are often wrong.

Damn wrongthinkers. World would be perfect if everyone just listened to the right people.

A man in Saudi Arabia goes to read the news, it is biased towards Saudi Arabia and Sunni Islam, that its journalists are students of Sunni theology and employed by Saudis has nothing to do with it: Reality has a Saudi bias
A man in the PRC goes to read the news, it is biased towards the PRC and communism, that its journalists are students of Marxism and employed by the PRC has nothing to do with it, reality has a PRC bias.
e.t.c., pretty deluded to think reality literally revolves around your biases. Worse still, it's the most hideous smugness exhibited in its purest, which is why liberals are so despised
despised
Liberalism does not demand much of people, yet its adherents manage to find themselves despised for their insufferable smugness
gg gj napoleon rolls in his grave

Excsue me, that's not what I said.

Reality does actually lean left of American center.  Hardcore right (alt-right) is demonstrably wrong on a bunch of points (see: conversion therapy in its entirety, 'trans people are all pervs', LGBTQ somehow bringing down society, climate change not existing, anything that claims trickle-down actually works, 'immigrants are a seedy crimefest', etc..)

[Reelya]

This is apparently a very recent thing. e.g. also from Jonothan Haidt's videos, up until the mid 90s, college professors were about 3:1 liberal:conservative. It's now like 15:1. So it's really a new thing that things are that polarized on US campuses.

Perhaps because the last quarter-century has seen republicans becoming aggressively anti-science.

Why are SJWs liberal's problem, but the Republicans don't have to answer for the KKK and the Alt-Right and the native terrorists?

Precisely because it's your problem. Saying "and so are you!" doesn't solve your own internal party problem. And we do seem to see a very quick jump to "they're just as bad!" whenever problems within liberalism are mooted. Short-circuiting the discussion like that isn't actually helping liberalism.

[smjjames]

Since when are liberals responsible for the KKK? If you say 'Democrats', that's not a reason because the liberal/conservative roles (as they existed in the mid to late 19th century) were flipped in comparison to now.

Party ideologies aren't static, they change over time.

[PTTG??]

This is apparently a very recent thing. e.g. also from Jonothan Haidt's videos, up until the mid 90s, college professors were about 3:1 liberal:conservative. It's now like 15:1. So it's really a new thing that things are that polarized on US campuses.

Perhaps because the last quarter-century has seen republicans becoming aggressively anti-science.

Why are SJWs liberal's problem, but the Republicans don't have to answer for the KKK and the Alt-Right and the native terrorists?

Precisely because it's your problem. Saying "and so are you!" doesn't solve your own internal party problem. And we do seem to see a very quick jump to "they're just as bad!" whenever problems within liberalism are mooted. Short-circuiting the discussion like that isn't actually helping liberalism.

Actually, I'm saying that the conservative extremists are much worse than, not equal to, SJWs.

[Strife26]

I think that the reason news has a liberal bias is that reality has a liberal bias...Factually, conservative points are often wrong.

Damn wrongthinkers. World would be perfect if everyone just listened to the right people.

A man in Saudi Arabia goes to read the news, it is biased towards Saudi Arabia and Sunni Islam, that its journalists are students of Sunni theology and employed by Saudis has nothing to do with it: Reality has a Saudi bias
A man in the PRC goes to read the news, it is biased towards the PRC and communism, that its journalists are students of Marxism and employed by the PRC has nothing to do with it, reality has a PRC bias.
e.t.c., pretty deluded to think reality literally revolves around your biases. Worse still, it's the most hideous smugness exhibited in its purest, which is why liberals are so despised
despised
Liberalism does not demand much of people, yet its adherents manage to find themselves despised for their insufferable smugness
gg gj napoleon rolls in his grave

Excsue me, that's not what I said.

Reality does actually lean left of American center.  Hardcore right (alt-right) is demonstrably wrong on a bunch of points (see: conversion therapy in its entirety, 'trans people are all pervs', LGBTQ somehow bringing down society, climate change not existing, anything that claims trickle-down actually works, 'immigrants are a seedy crimefest', etc..)

Damn wrongthinkers. World would be perfect if everyone just listened to the right people.

I could write a script and post it every few pages and be perfectly on topic. Hardcore righters are perfectly crazy, but so are hardcore lefties. And the lefties do a much better job at getting star chambers implemented these days.

[uber pye]

This is apparently a very recent thing. e.g. also from Jonothan Haidt's videos, up until the mid 90s, college professors were about 3:1 liberal:conservative. It's now like 15:1. So it's really a new thing that things are that polarized on US campuses.

Perhaps because the last quarter-century has seen republicans becoming aggressively anti-science.

Why are SJWs liberal's problem, but the Republicans don't have to answer for the KKK and the Alt-Right and the native terrorists?

Precisely because it's your problem. Saying "and so are you!" doesn't solve your own internal party problem. And we do seem to see a very quick jump to "they're just as bad!" whenever problems within liberalism are mooted. Short-circuiting the discussion like that isn't actually helping liberalism.

Actually, I'm saying that the conservative extremists are much worse than, not equal to, SJWs.

the bad in one group does not excuse the bad in another.

[Reelya]

Actually, I'm saying that the conservative extremists are much worse than, not equal to, SJWs.

But that's not what you asked. You asked "Why are SJWs liberal's problem"

And I made the point that it doesn't matter what the other side is doing. If you let douchebags take over your side, things aren't ok "because the other side are bigger douchebags". Like I said talking about the other side whenever the spotlight is on your own side is deflection, and doesn't come across as very self-aware.

And there's a strong line of reasoning that the self-refential smug and self-righteous echo-chamber of the current liberal consensus played a lot into the current election loss. So it is liberalism problem. Always being quick to jump to point out that the other side is worse when criticism points at liberalism is the same old self-destructive behavior that got you guys where you are right now. The time for soul-searching is after a big loss. It's not the time to double-down on the set of beliefs that got you there.

[Strife26]

Very nicely put, Reelya.


In general, your tribe doesn't include the worst actors, while the other guy's tribe includes every tangentially related loonie. 

[PTTG??]

...Hardcore righters are perfectly crazy, but so are hardcore lefties. And the lefties do a much better job at getting star chambers implemented these days.

There is a strong effort to normalize the extremist views held by Trump supporters. Ideas that refute truth, ideas that cast outsiders as dangerous and the strong-man as the only protection. There is a qualitative difference between saying that global warming is real, rather than false. There is a qualitative difference between saying that Muslim refugees are an existential threat and saying that they are not. There is a qualitative difference between ostracizing LGBTQ Americans and not doing so.

The parties are not equal.

Actually, I'm saying that the conservative extremists are much worse than, not equal to, SJWs.

But that's not what you asked. You asked "Why are SJWs liberal's problem"

And I made the point that it doesn't matter what the other side is doing. If you let douchebags take over your side, things aren't ok "because the other side are bigger douchebags". Like I said talking about the other side whenever the spotlight is on your own side is deflection, and doesn't come across as very self-aware.

I'm saying that SJWs aren't a problem at all. Seriously. I feel like I'm in an apartment complex and I have a chihuahua that yaps sometimes, while my next-door neighbors have a pack of wolves that bark and howl all hours of the day and have actually killed and eaten a few people. Now I'm getting noise complains, and this "neutral" third party comes along and says "Welp, these are equally bad."

Very nicely put, Reelya.
In general, your tribe doesn't include the worst actors, while the other guy's tribe includes every tangentially related loonie. 

Leaving the metaphor, need I remind you that Trump and Pence were elected in the primary? They represent the core of the modern Republican party, and the Alt-Right is in the god-damned cabinet.

SJWs have trouble getting on a student council. They are not a major political force in the DNC, and if they were, what exactly are they going to do that constitutes "crazy?"

[smjjames]

@pttg: You also have to remember that his opposition split things up majorly and while the non-trump voters did outnumber Trumps vote, they were heavily split.

In fact, it was looking like the Republicans we're going to go through the same soul searching that the Democrats are going through. Actually, since the fractures are still there, just plastered over atm, I think both parties need to do some soul searching.

As far as the Dems go though, we'll have to see whether they learn from their mistakes or not.