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[smjjames]

I don't get why the media heavily concentrate on why people voted trump when they need to ask why people didn't vote for clinton. the real reason for trump's election isn't his overwhelming success due to an awakening of dormant racist or economical deprived sentiments, it's clinton overwhelming defeat.

No idea either, unless the only answers they've gotten are'EMAILS!' 'HER NAME IS CLINTON!' 'BENGHAZI' 'SHE'S CORRUPT!' 'BECAUSE DEMOCRAT!', but you do have a point in looking at both sides of the metaphorical coin.

[wierd]

Wierd, like for goddamn real, we have been doing shit like that for decades. Generations. Even as the GOP steadily worked to make it harder or impossible. That doesn't work.

Really now? The areas I see never even get a mention in the press about infrastructure out here in the sticks, except to complain how much it will cost, and that inner city systemic problems are lower hanging fruit.

[Vilanat]

No, it's not looking at two sides of the coin, it's looking at voting trends. Trump actually lost votes, not drove them by the masses to his side and most of those who did vote for him would have probably voted for a scarecrow so long as he's a republican, so why waste time debating something that hasn't changed? it's Hilary that made the change by losing way way more.

[Sergarr]

I don't get why the media heavily concentrate on why people voted trump when they need to ask why people didn't vote for clinton. the real reason for trump's election isn't his overwhelming success due to an awakening of dormant racist or economical deprived sentiments, it's clinton overwhelming defeat.

No idea either, unless the only answers they've gotten are'EMAILS!' 'HER NAME IS CLINTON!' 'BENGHAZI' 'SHE'S CORRUPT!' 'BECAUSE DEMOCRAT!', but you do have a point in looking at both sides of the metaphorical coin.

I think it's because she didn't have the charisma to make people feel like they want to believe her. Or go out and vote for her, for that matter - her turnout dropped like if she was Obama's 3rd term.

Trump has dubbed this sort of thing among his GOP contenders as a 'low-energy loser". And it's apparently a real thing - she lost, because she didn't have the energy to make Obama's coalition Democrats really go out and vote for her.

It's really amazing just how actually potent that "energy" thing is, though - with her extremely-well-funded campaign machine, she could only barely muster more total votes than Trump, who had a record low number of $$$ in his campaign among all Presidential candidates in recent history.

[Frumple]

Wierd, like for goddamn real, we have been doing shit like that for decades. Generations. Even as the GOP steadily worked to make it harder or impossible. That doesn't work.

Really now? The areas I see never even get a mention in the press about infrastructure out here in the sticks, except to complain how much it will cost, and that inner city systemic problems are lower hanging fruit.

I know the press never says a goddamn thing about it! It's a good chunk of the reason I would be entirely unbothered if most of it caught fire and died right now. They also don't say a damn thing about where most of the opposition to it is coming from, either, or who's been the major roadblocks to getting those low hanging fruit out of the way and redirecting efforts from keeping those from going to complete hell to other things.

[wierd]

Even among high info voters she was unpopular due to her voting record, and her penchant for saying whatever is most politically advantageous, rather than having a real platform of her own. Generally unappealing, in the way unsalted white grits are.

[Frumple]

Hi. Hello. You are repeating media narrative. Even high info voters are not immune to constantly hearing the same bloody thing over and over and over.

[smjjames]

I don't get why the media heavily concentrate on why people voted trump when they need to ask why people didn't vote for clinton. the real reason for trump's election isn't his overwhelming success due to an awakening of dormant racist or economical deprived sentiments, it's clinton overwhelming defeat.

No idea either, unless the only answers they've gotten are'EMAILS!' 'HER NAME IS CLINTON!' 'BENGHAZI' 'SHE'S CORRUPT!' 'BECAUSE DEMOCRAT!', but you do have a point in looking at both sides of the metaphorical coin.

I think it's because she didn't have the charisma to make people feel like they want to believe her. Or go out and vote for her, for that matter - her turnout dropped like if she was Obama's 3rd term.

Trump has dubbed this sort of thing among his GOP contenders as a 'low-energy loser". And it's apparently a real thing - she lost, because she didn't have the energy to make Obama's coalition Democrats really go out and vote for her.

It's really amazing just how actually potent that "energy" thing is, though - with her extremely-well-funded campaign machine, she could only barely muster more total votes than Trump, who had a record low number of $$$ in his campaign among all Presidential candidates in recent history.

She did have a likeability issue and an authenticity issue, but that wouldn't be the whole story. Clinton herself and her team made lots of mistakes as well.

Hi. Hello. You are repeating media narrative. Even high info voters are not immune to constantly hearing the same bloody thing over and over and over.

I think that's what he said. But it's more complex and media isn't the sole reason anyway.

[Frumple]

I didn't say it was, smj.

[wierd]

Wierd, like for goddamn real, we have been doing shit like that for decades. Generations. Even as the GOP steadily worked to make it harder or impossible. That doesn't work.

Really now? The areas I see never even get a mention in the press about infrastructure out here in the sticks, except to complain how much it will cost, and that inner city systemic problems are lower hanging fruit.

I know the press never says a goddamn thing about it! It's a good chunk of the reason I would be entirely unbothered if most of it caught fire and died right now. They also don't say a damn thing about where most of the opposition to it is coming from, either, or who's been the major roadblocks to getting those low hanging fruit out of the way and redirecting efforts from keeping those from going to complete hell to other things.

One can only stand waiting so long, as the amount spent on other people grows larger and larger, with no signs of progress.

Remember, the problem is the *perception*, they perceive this is so. Bridges gave been washed out for 30 years. They are down to just a handful servicing huge areas, and those were not designed for the traffic.  Many feel that even when those fail, nobody in the cities will care until they can't get food with their foodstamps.

[wierd]

Hi. Hello. You are repeating media narrative. Even high info voters are not immune to constantly hearing the same bloody thing over and over and over.

That it is a media narrative does not remove the truth in it...

Her position on gay marriage in the 90s? More conservative than trumps. Even john oliver called her on it.

[smjjames]

Forgot to post this a couple minutes earlier: One of Trumps advisors has been linked to Turkish lobbying. We already know he's surrounded himself with lobbyists, that's Washington, but the ironic thing is that Trump wants to ban lobbying for foriegn governments, yet, Michael Flynn's firm lobbies for Turkish interests.

[Frumple]

Wierd. Buddy. At what point I have I said the problem is not perception? I'm pretty sure I have been repeatedly harping on the fact that that is the exact problem.

And no, it does. It strips off truth that's contrary to the narrative, and exaggerates the ones that aren't. Her voting record is one of the most left leaning we have. Her history on stances have been one of the more solid among politicians, and largely only changed nuance or implementation, usually in the face of reasons to do so and even then it has been constantly moving left. Some people did report that. Some folks bothered to check, actually see what kind of picture was painted by something besides the incessantly repeated refrains. Did we hear about that on the news? On anything major? With any repetition? Over any notable amount of time? No? No. FTFE.

[martinuzz]

Forgot to post this a couple minutes earlier: One of Trumps advisors has been linked to Turkish lobbying. We already know he's surrounded himself with lobbyists, that's Washington, but the ironic thing is that Trump wants to ban lobbying for foriegn governments, yet, Michael Flynn's firm lobbies for Turkish interests.

With ' foreign' he means 'foreign to him', not as a nation. Lobbying by fellow autocrats is okay.

[wierd]

Wierd. Buddy. At what point I have I said the problem is not perception? I'm pretty sure I have been repeatedly harping on the fact that that is the exact problem.

And no, it does. It strips off truth that's contrary to the narrative, and exaggerates the ones that aren't. Her voting record is one of the most left leaning we have. Her history on stances have been one of the more solid among politicians, and largely only changed nuance or implementation, usually in the face of reasons to do so and even then it has been constantly moving left. Some people did report that. Some folks bothered to check, actually see what kind of picture was painted by something besides the incessantly repeated refrains. Did we hear about that on the news? On anything major? With any repetition? Over any notable amount of time? No? No. FTFE.

A high info voter implies a person with the intellect to know to tease truths from the morass of fabrications in the populist narrative, to arrive at an informed decision.

I reviewed many hours of cspan, myself.
I actually read the foia dump of her sec state emails, and found infractions. Myself.
I read the DNC emails leaked by wiki leaks.
Most of the shit from the right? Pure BS.
But the left's insistence she did nothing wrong? Equally BS. Her history of almost perfect partisan politicking? Public record.

They could have dug up a cloakroom worker more electable than her.