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[Rolepgeek]

There are only really two possible worlds.

A. Trump is ruthless enough to outright dispense with coded language and court the bigot vote directly.

B. Trump actually believes the shit he says.

Neither of these are good things.

I can easily see a third.

C. Donald Trump is a showman, and he works best by putting on a show. Combine that with his ego, which self-edits his beliefs and memory so that he always succeeds, and he can be utterly outrageous and appear utterly sincere. He's like the perfection of the human design to play signalling games. The conscious mind appears to be an idiot, so everyone underestimates him. The subconscious manipulates the conscious into being successful at manipulating others and playing to anything that helps it.

Now that he's won, it'll keep working. People joke about the hair controlling him, but thinking about it now I'm actually concerned because I have little idea what his subconscious will do.

[Neonivek]

I'd rather be hurt by the truth then protected by a lie.

This implies there's some truth we're missing, or some lie we're blinded by.

Please, enlighten us.

If I had to guess

Trump is the devil you know, while Hillary is the one you don't.

Trump has all his villainy on the table. While Hillary has all her secret deeds behind curtains.

Mind you I think that is all perception based... It isn't like Trump hasn't done some pretty scummy bastardry before (look at any of his 100 lawsuits)

[nenjin]

I'd rather be hurt by the truth then protected by a lie.

See when you reduce a choice as important as who the next president is down to a slogan, that's when about half the country looks at you in disbelief. Because clearly there's more to it, but for some reason people just keep it to a single sentence.

[hector13]

I don't think that's it, Clinton's been in the political sphere prominently since the '90s (far as I know, foreigner, I was barely in primary school at that point) so it should be reasonably clear what her stance is on most things.

[Crashmaster]

I'd rather be hurt by the truth then protected by a lie.

This implies there's some truth we're missing, or some lie we're blinded by.

Please, enlighten us.

You have presumed a lot. Stop oppressing me.

I wouldn'the be surprised if the uptick in reported hate crimes is due to false police reporting supposed hate crimes perpetrated  by trump and trump supporters.

If only white people can be racist.
Racist is a racial slur.
Calling people racist is therefore racist.
Being racist is appropriating white culture.

[smjjames]

And of course, there's the massive uptick in hate crimes emboldened and okay'd by Trump's rhetoric.

Like what?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/us/post-election-hate-crimes-and-fears-trnd/index.html

I don't know how much of an uptick it is over the rate that was happening before Trump got elected (or maybe before he ran, for a better benchmark), whether it'll be a sustained rate, increase, or die down, is unknown.

[Neonivek]

If only white people can be racist.

Anyone can be racist.

[smjjames]

I'd rather be hurt by the truth then protected by a lie.

This implies there's some truth we're missing, or some lie we're blinded by.

Please, enlighten us.

You have presumed a lot. Stop oppressing me.

um, how are we oppressing you? You're among friends here, feel free to talk.

If only white people can be racist.
Racist is a racial slur.
Calling people racist is therefore racist.
Being racist is appropriating white culture.

Nobody here is saying ONLY white people can be racist.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

It seems to be the law of Pathos that there always be at least one person in bad faith for any given AmeriPol Thread.

[Frumple]

I wouldn't be surprised if he blamed the uptick in hate crimes on Democrat/mainstreammedia propoganda. If he ever acknowledges it in any way.

Eh, pretty much anything negative's going to be blamed on something else, if history's anything to go by. I'm not sure he's actually physically capable of claiming fault with any sincerity.

Assuming he is not completely morally bankrupt...

heeheehee

Nah, nah. I jest. He's not completely morally bankrupt, as near as we can tell. He hasn't murdered anyone. Directly. Probably.

Though more seriously, dude's main skillset is he's a con man. That, unlike just about everything else, he's legitimately solid on, if not really amazing (if there's not a hell of a lot of people in the fraud market kicking themselves at the moment, I would be deeply surprised). Same kinda' fellow that plays confidence games with the elderly and convinces them to give up the money that would pay medical bills and whatnot.* Moral bankruptcy, at least towards the people you're targeting (which in his case is everyone, by and large, except maybe family... or at least his kids), is a foundational prerequisite for that. Can't really do it with any effectiveness unless you're capable of having a total lack of respect for another human being, and by extension are willing to do and say anything to them.

*There's been a handful of those trying to prey on my grandparents for years. Trump's everything is dead on for the behavior they exhibit.

[hector13]

I'd rather be hurt by the truth then protected by a lie.

This implies there's some truth we're missing, or some lie we're blinded by.

Please, enlighten us.

You have presumed a lot. Stop oppressing me.

I wouldn'the be surprised if the uptick in reported hate crimes is due to false police reporting supposed hate crimes perpetrated  by trump and trump supporters.

If only white people can be racist.
Racist is a racial slur.
Calling people racist is therefore racist.
Being racist is appropriating white culture.

What was I presuming? You offered up a cliche as some sort of explanation of something, so I asked for clarification after revealing what I thought you meant.

That stream of logic there is also pretty flawed, as Neonivek said. White people are not the only folk who can be racist, so the rest of the argument is kinda flawed, and looks a bit troll-y.

Poe's law, I guess. If you genuinely believe it, apologies.

[WealthyRadish]

From what I've seen on the news, they think the only people who voted for Trump were racists/homophobic/mysogenic/etc.

I know that the media isn't exactly the best at getting good data (polls,  ), but what do the more liberally-inclined forumites here think about that?

Every single person I've talked to about this election face-to-face has said something about both candidates being terrible, with Clinton being "incredibly corrupt" and Trump being a either Hitler or a more vague sort of terrible where people forgot why they're not supposed to support him. People aren't stupid, they sense the way most of the media has treated Trump either as a joke or with thinly veiled contempt, but there's been an astounding inability to actually articulate why Trump has been considered so unqualified and offensive from the outset. The pundits and the media considered his flaws so obvious that their wit and egos demanded not spelling it out or taking him seriously, and it looks like one result was that most of the people who weren't leaning Democrat at the start wrote the media off as biased and not worth trusting. When the media can't be trusted, suddenly anything is possible; Clinton is "incredibly corrupt" because of a goddamn email server, Trump's incessant gaffs (each more surely debilitating than the last) become white noise, and words like "racism" or "misogyny" become increasingly meaningless.

So when I hear people rail now about how racist Trump and his supporters are, I must wonder, what the hell is even the point? People either knew and voted for him anyway, or fucking forgot.

Fakeedit: 28 replies, nopenopenope

[Baffler]

And of course, there's the massive uptick in hate crimes emboldened and okay'd by Trump's rhetoric.

Like what?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/us/post-election-hate-crimes-and-fears-trnd/index.html

I don't know how much of an uptick it is over the rate that was happening before Trump got elected (or maybe before he ran, for a better benchmark), whether it'll be a sustained rate, increase, or die down, is unknown.

Okay. 11 year olds chanting "build the wall!" in their school cafeteria isn't exactly a hate crime, but I see where you're coming from with the rest of it. Hopefully things calm down soon, nobody wants or needs this kind of thing.

If only white people can be racist.
Racist is a racial slur.
Calling people racist is therefore racist.
Being racist is appropriating white culture.

Nobody here is saying ONLY white people can be racist.

Maybe nobody here, but people do say that. The new, "updated" definition of racism is prejudice + power, and since we all know no member of any minority group anywhere in America has any power or personal agency, and have their life and livelihoods at the absolute whim of the evil white majority at all times; it follows that only white people can be racist.

[nenjin]

It seems to be the law of Pathos that there always be at least one person in bad faith for any given AmeriPol Thread.

Really does seem to be getting that way.

[Frumple]

People aren't stupid, they sense the way most of the media has treated Trump either as a joke or with thinly veiled contempt, but there's been an astounding inability to actually articulate why Trump has been considered so unqualified and offensive from the outset. The pundits and the media considered his flaws so obvious that their wit and egos demanded not spelling it out or taking him seriously

The morbidly hilarious thing is that why trump isn't qualified has been articulated meticulously... it's just no one in the fourth estate bothered to put it together and present it, or if they did not enough of the rest could bring themselves to stop doing what they were doing and report on it. And as near as I can tell the dems screwed up enough they actually trusted the media to do something like that instead of doing it themselves. As is becoming more apparent the more post-election contemplation and whatnot goes on, one of the biggest lessons anyone, but the dems in particular, can learn from this is FTFE.

... though baff, I'm... pretty sure that definition is older than I am. Systemic racism's been something considered separately than more personal stuff for a while, if my memory's working and the voodoo curse isn't.