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[darkrider2]

But let's be real here, DNC Hillary will force in Hillary again.

 

[Frumple]

she didnt even give them lip service, not a single reason to hope for better conditions for working class people. Her trajectory in these last months was almost entirely focused on minorities and being better than Trump.

Their usual voterbase was ignored and is now being accused of treachery as mob mentality takes over and everyone seeks to blame someone else, with no sense me solidarity or compassion for fellow americans because their heads are so far up their asses that they actualy believe the insane narrative of everyone who thinks differently being racist, insane and evil as victimism takes over as the favored narrative.

And, y'know, as you mention FD and ree? This? Just about every friggin' line that keeps being rolled out that the dems have somehow abandoned the working class, somehow stopped being compassionate towards their problems, somehow haven't been doing massive goddamn piles of shit to not just give hope for better conditions, but actually goddamn give them?

Congrats. You just pissed on me, and my family. My friends. The people they know, the people those people know. The web of democrats (and independents and every so often lighter red republicans, to be fair, for all that's not really the point right now) from one end of the country to the other that are about the only ones doing a single goddamn thing for this apparently maligned and ignored working class that somehow hasn't spent the last number of decades with democrats being just about the only thing giving them any solid attention, despite that being exactly what has bloody been happening, despite, yes, clinton actually going out over the course of this election and stumping and saying a whole hell of a lot of shit that would have had them perking up and listening if apparently the entire goddamn world didn't have a filter it turned on to make democratic efforts to improve things on that front disappear into the aether.

There's this talk about sneering liberal elites, well. Here we actually are, from my perspective. Y'all are so busy trying to snap at the "regressive left", or sneer at media fuckups you're calling policy and campaign decisions, or continue your own insistence in ignoring everything that happened that didn't fit your narrative, that you are now saying we are not here, we're not fucking doing anything, and we have somehow been spending all this time calling our neighbors racist idiots or whatever the hell (hint: What the hell? No. Beyond everything else, we're well aware that could get us shot.). That somehow clinton's policy and regular mention of working conditions, working class issues, and so on, and so forth, never actually existed. Usual voter base ignored, as if just about the entire goddamn list of policy and probably half the shit that actually came out of clinton's mouth didn't have that voter base right in its bloody crosshairs.

I'm still not quite sure how that sodding works. But again, apparently much of my experience to date has been hallucination. That's what folks calling themselves left wing keep saying. Somehow it's the impression a lot of the working class gets, too, which I still haven't bloody figured out but at least they've been consistent enough about it I guess they have an excuse.

Lip service. Yeah. There's not at least fifty or sixty years of "lip service" out there, apparently. That policy list that consisted almost entirely of it never existed. Every time clinton mentioned the working class or shit that effected them over the course of this years campaign didn't happen! Somehow. I swear, the more this post election discussion goes (not just here, but in a lot of places), the most frustrating this is getting. I can tell yeh, there definitely is someone and something getting ignored here, and it's not the voter base and not just the left in general that's doing it (not that the right's any better, mind, obviously enough).

I'd just like to repeat one more time, though. Fuck the media. With whatever bushel of rusty farm implements you can dig up. More than just about anything those bastards' insistence on ignoring the vast frothing horde of shit that wasn't the latest clickbait bullshit is to blame for what I'm talking about above. There is hate in my heart for the forth estate right now.

[smjjames]

re the earlier discussion on Democrat failings: I was a Bernie supporter from the start and the only reason I voted Hillary (I didn't really want to vote for her either), was to try and keep Trump out of office. I agree with FD's analysis, the Dems made the same mistake as the Reps did with ignoring the working class. The Republicans were partially right in their autopsy, they missed the working class but were correct on Latinos. So, lets see what the Dems say in their autopsy.

Although I think they should take a few weeks to ruminate or meditate or think over or whatever on it. I don't remember the Republican autopsy coming out that quickly after the election.

@Frumple: I'll admit I'm ignorant on Democrats efforts to help rural people, being a city born and bred.

[DJ]

Why not Elizabeth Warren 2020?

But let's be real here, DNC will force in Hillary again.

Warren looks bland next to Gabbard, honestly, and there is no way Hillary has another run in her after this. If Hillary Part 3, Warren, and ReBerninating are the best they could offer in 4 years they're handing Trump an easy reelection.

You find me someone more exciting than Gabbard, who could compete with the instant credibility she gains from being a young, female, minority, who at 21 was the youngest hawaiian legislator ever elected, and 2 years later when her brothers and sisters were called to Iraq she chose to join them rather than remain stateside. She's got cred as an activist working to preserve the environment of the islands, experience working in a small business with her parents and a degree in international business, worked on the city council in Honolulu, before becoming the first American Hindu and one of two female combat vets in the House, which she was mentored in by the badass I was crushing on above, Inouye.

Don't forget she can identify with everyone who felt cheated by the DNC manipulating things to keep Bernie out because she was ALSO pushed out for supporting him, and if by some strange convergence of events he had wound up winning as a write-in candidate from California, she would have been his VP.

Tulsi fucking rocks in every way that Hillary didn't, and could pull off the same sort of inspirational movement that Obama did, and Bernie started to before it was shut down for Hilldog, there is no way Warren could compete against that.

Warren is all about the economy, tho, which is the key to win the center. Most of Gabbard's advantages are more appealing to the left, though the military record is sure to win some points on the right. Still, I think center and center right voters care more about focus on economy than about military record.

[smjjames]

Pretty good analysis that is spot on actually: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-loses-2016-complacency-214445

[TempAcc]

she didnt even give them lip service, not a single reason to hope for better conditions for working class people. Her trajectory in these last months was almost entirely focused on minorities and being better than Trump.

Their usual voterbase was ignored and is now being accused of treachery as mob mentality takes over and everyone seeks to blame someone else, with no sense me solidarity or compassion for fellow americans because their heads are so far up their asses that they actualy believe the insane narrative of everyone who thinks differently being racist, insane and evil as victimism takes over as the favored narrative.

And, y'know, as you mention FD and ree? This? Just about every friggin' line that keeps being rolled out that the dems have somehow abandoned the working class, somehow stopped being compassionate towards their problems, somehow haven't been doing massive goddamn piles of shit to not just give hope for better conditions, but actually goddamn give them?

Congrats. You just pissed on me, and my family. My friends. The people they know, the people those people know. The web of democrats (and independents and every so often lighter red republicans, to be fair, for all that's not really the point right now) from one end of the country to the other that are about the only ones doing a single goddamn thing for this apparently maligned and ignored working class that somehow hasn't spent the last number of decades with democrats being just about the only thing giving them any solid attention, despite that being exactly what has bloody been happening, despite, yes, clinton actually going out over the course of this election and stumping and saying a whole hell of a lot of shit that would have had them perking up and listening if apparently the entire goddamn world didn't have a filter it turned on to make democratic efforts to improve things on that front disappear into the aether.

There's this talk about sneering liberal elites, well. Here we actually are, from my perspective. Y'all are so busy trying to snap at the "regressive left", or sneer at media fuckups you're calling policy and campaign decisions, or continue your own insistence in ignoring everything that happened that didn't fit your narrative, that you are now saying we are not here, we're not fucking doing anything, and we have somehow been spending all this time calling our neighbors racist idiots or whatever the hell (hint: What the hell? No. Beyond everything else, we're well aware that could get us shot.). That somehow clinton's policy and regular mention of working conditions, working class issues, and so on, and so forth, never actually existed. Usual voter base ignored, as if just about the entire goddamn list of policy and probably half the shit that actually came out of clinton's mouth didn't have that voter base right in its bloody crosshairs.

I'm still not quite sure how that sodding works. But again, apparently much of my experience to date has been hallucination. That's what folks calling themselves left wing keep saying. Somehow it's the impression a lot of the working class gets, too, which I still haven't bloody figured out but at least they've been consistent enough about it I guess they have an excuse.

Lip service. Yeah. There's not at least fifty or sixty years of "lip service" out there, apparently. That policy list that consisted almost entirely of it never existed. Every time clinton mentioned the working class or shit that effected them over the course of this years campaign didn't happen! Somehow. I swear, the more this post election discussion goes (not just here, but in a lot of places), the most frustrating this is getting. I can tell yeh, there definitely is someone and something getting ignored here, and it's not the voter base and not just the left in general that's doing it (not that the right's any better, mind, obviously enough).

I'd just like to repeat one more time, though. Fuck the media. With whatever bushel of rusty farm implements you can dig up. More than just about anything those bastards' insistence on ignoring the vast frothing horde of shit that wasn't the latest clickbait bullshit is to blame for what I'm talking about above. There is hate in my heart for the forth estate right now.

The dems (as a collective entity) might have not, but Hillary has literally made herself into the dead, unchanging face of establishment indiference, IE the very thing the dems have opposed for decades on end (until they got into power, I guess, then it got reduced to some more principled people here and there).

Does anyone even have to mention, yet again, that quite a significant portion of liberals was simply forced into voting Hillary, since they had no real option, and that many would probably still be disgruntled about it even if she won by a landslide? I'm not pissing on you or your perceived notion of what the democrat party is (or has become), I'm just baffled that people are surprised that enough people didn't like hillary enough to vote her to the point Trump became elected, and that said result has been caused by anything but the democratic party failing at attending to the hopes of the majority of the american population. Is hillary really the best the dems can put out? Stablishment avatar incarnate that is inseparable from Bill? Lady "I defend X people but not Y"?

Look, I get your angle, and I can't say much in regards to your experience asa citizen since I'm not american, but we have come to this point in previous arguments before: the nation isn't composed entirely of the part of society you have more direct contact with. Many people were, still are and will be disilusioned with the democrat party, or at least what it has transformed itself into nowadays, things have come to the point that people have clearly shown that they don't feel represented anymore, and this result is a cry for help from those people. They're trapped in a country in which they feel nobody capable of having significant political influence represents them. Of course, one could say that this is Hillary's failure more so than the democrat party, but they're not out of the woods either.

Either the democrat party reinvents itself (and the entire american left, to an extent, as well), or it is doomed to fail if Trump does anything other than fail so hard that people will be more willing to embrace a diseased body than another republican, because as days go by, this is what the american left is presenting itself as: a mean, unjustly agressive, childish, dismissive diseased creature.

I do not claim right now that this is a continuation of what FD or Reelya has said, as this is only my opinion, and it doesnt come in a mean spirited fashion or as a way to piss people off, but as genuine concern and empathy, because I come from a country in which the left has long abandoned any serious pretense of fighting for the working class man, and has become a corrupt body laden with nothing but self interest, hunger for power and real, proven disgust for anyone who's not included in its pseudo intellectual bubble, SPECIALLY if its working class people, ironically. What we can observe in post election days is an explosion of outright contempt for anyone who didn't really Hillary in office or even just expressed concern at the fact, and very few attempts (or willingness to make such attempts) to conciliate a nation that was already divided, on both sides, and this is specially worrying

[Frumple]

@Frumple: I'll admit I'm ignorant on Democrats efforts to help rural people, being a city born and bred.

Hell smj, about all you really have to remember in a general sense is that republicans have been campaigning on a policy of less effective government for decades, and for all that messes with cities it screws places outside of them, that need that kind of assistance and investment to make up for all the crap that's just not there anymore and won't be coming back. Businesses don't give a shit about these places, not enough to bring back saturation and whatnot equivalent to the heydays -- nothing they actually want is out here except resource extraction that dries up, and outside of desultory efforts to scoop up the scraps of market that's left when that happens, they do fuck all so far as making things better. About the most republicans ever seem to do much of on that front is fight for farming subsidies, and hey, there's not nearly enough people needed for that to keep these places alive.

Reduced funding (for education, for infrastructure, for health, for everything), more obstructive and less protective regulation, just flat out denying the implementation of all sorts of crap that would be saving lives, improving lives, bringing work back into the community (even if it's not the sort of work it used to be), so on, and so forth -- it's stuff like that that's been the thrust of the republican ground game out here in these joints for most of my life. The other half of the equation of ruin these folks are dealing with, the part that's not just economic reality, is that one of our major political parties have been specifically trying to wreck any governmental and many non-profit, etc., efforts to either slow down, stop, or sidestep the effects of that reality, and they've been doing it for decades.

And the democrats, well. They've largely been doing either the opposite, or trying to curtail those efforts.

E: And hey, here we go again. All the shit hillary did that was counter to that description? Never happened! Ahahaha!

I'm telling you, I don't know which god has cursed liberal efforts on this front, but I want to know so I can find it and kill it, because it's reaching the point the best explanation I have (that isn't an unending litany of "fuck the media") for this shit is voodoo curse.

[smjjames]

Well, the real problem is not so much how Hillary failed, but how the Democrats failed.

[martinuzz]

According to Trump, it's okay to start a revolution when the other candidate has more popular votes. At least that's what he said in 2012, when he thought Mitt Romney was going to win the popular vote from Obama. "More votes results in a loss? Revolution! We can't let this happen. The electoral system is making us look like fools. Let's fight against this disgusting injustice. The world is mocking us.", he Twittered back then, only to find out a few hours later that Romney did not win the popular vote.

So I suppose if California decides to secede, Trump can only say 'I approve of this message'.
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/18/politics/donald-trump-rigged-vote-twitter-2012/

In other news, Putin sends some backstabbing regards. The Russian under-minister of foreign affairs, Sergej Ryabkov said, according to Interfax press agency, that contrary to Trump's campaing team's repeated denial, there have most definitly been multiple meetings between Russian diplomats and Trump's campaign staff.
"This is normal business, and we will continue to have contact.", Ryabkov said, without specifying what those meetings were about. He added that invitations to meet had also been sent to the Clinton campaign team, but that they did not accept.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/live-trump-in-2012-kiessysteem-zet-land-voor-schut~a4412517/

[Frumple]

Well, the real problem is not so much how Hillary failed, but how the Democrats failed.

Voodoo. Curse.

[sluissa]

So far there's been only a few casualties of the Trump election.
Two men died after eating their hat as they had promised to do when Trump would win, a third one barely survived eating his boots, and a lady passed away after ingesting her iPhone losing the same bet.

Also the...eight, was it? LGBT people who committed suicide on the first day.

I'm just going to say it. These people were insane. And it wasn't Trump that did this to them. It was the illogical fear mongering of the left.

If you have a friend that's seriously worried about Trump and looks like they might be suicidal, help them. Don't just stand back and watch and then afterwards point and say "Look what Trump did!"

As for the people who ate non-edible items? They're just idiots. Ain't just rednecks who do stupid things to remove themselves from the gene pool apparently. "Hold my vegan local brew craft ale."

[martinuzz]

As for the people who ate non-edible items? They're just idiots. Ain't just rednecks who do stupid things to remove themselves from the gene pool apparently. "Hold my vegan local brew craft ale."

Lol, I was just being absurd. As far as I know no one actually died eating their shoes. I had just read an article about various national and international celebreties vowing to eat their shoes, hats, phones or children when Trump would be elected.

[anzki4]

Let me give my 2 cents on the whole dem-campaign sucked. Now I'm not american and I have followed the elections mainly from this thread (plus links posted in here) and few non-american media sources, so take this with a grain of salt.

The problem with the dem-campaign, in my opinion, was that there was no dem-campaign. Or to be more accurate, it did not get LITERALLY ANY media coverage. (Same could be said for gop-campaign. Trump just won more people with his rhetoric.) 99% of the media coverage and the posts in this very thread had nothing to do with the democratic party's campaign, but instead of various scandals, comments and propaganda pieces from SUPPORTERS of Clinton. Take into account that those supporters had no affiliation with Clinton herself and thus she had no means to control what they were saying. All the complaints about the campaign have nothing to do with the campaign. At least I never saw Clintons official campaign calling racists/rednecks/whatnot.

The campaigns of Trump and Clinton were farts in the wind, because the media directed their entire focus - aside from various scandals - to comments, writings etc. from people shouting shit from the sidelines and represented that as a official party agenda.
[/RANT]

[Arx]

That actually pretty well sums up my experience.

[Frumple]

Heeey, remember where I keep saying the forth estate can screw itself. Congratulations, you've noticed why :3

I would love to see the Democratic party (and 'the left' in general, in many western countries) actually start to ASK the working class what they want, and listen to them rather than try to indoctrinate them. But I won't hold my breath for it happening.

jesus fuck cov we do

The answer is work, safety for their family, possibility for their kids, their community staying and/or coming back. Generally other stuff, too, but those are the big ones. Those fronts? All those fronts? Dedicated and persistent effort. Decades. Generations. What it amounts to in public opinion, even on local levels? Apparently sod all! Ahahaha!

As near as I can tell the problem is, again, that we generally don't just lie to them. We can't honestly promise those factory or fishing or whatever jobs back, because that's not physically possible at this point. We can't promise that safety manifest in localized monoculturalism, because no, we're not going to fuck over other americans to do this and we don't have to, goddamnit. We can't make that possibility be the work their parents did, that isn't there anymore. We can't work that community around an <insert industry that's gone>. But we can make improvements on all those fronts. We make improvements on all those fronts, despite near constant opposition to that by primarily conservative politicians. People say we need to do more, or actually listen, or are just sneering at them or what the fuck ever. We're doing about as much as we can, we're listening and doing everything we can within the framework of reality to work from there, we're not sneering we're sodding well right there beside them and trying to get all of us out of this mire. What. The hell. More. Are we supposed to be doing?

I'm just going to say it. These people were insane. And it wasn't Trump that did this to them. It was the illogical fear mongering of the left.

And slu, probably a bit crazy, but again, considering we just elected a vice president that has, as I've now noticed, not just advocated for spending government money to fund LGBT torture initiatives, but actually done it? That ain't illogical fear mongering, mate, we've got a VP that has literally directed government funds towards torturing these folks. It's very logical fear. And, yeah, in the face of that some of that's going to happen.