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Author Topic: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0  (Read 1393193 times)

TheBiggerFish

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #9090 on: October 31, 2016, 08:38:45 am »

Their English webpage has an infinite loop...
You mean that it only has about 20 cartoons and then clicking next will bring you back to the 1st one?
Yep.

FBI director James Comey could be facing criminal charges for breaking the "Hatch Act" law, which prohibits FBI officials from influencing politics.
Democratic fraction leader Harry Reid wrote him a letter of accusation and has called for an inquiry.


WTF did he find in these e-mails that prompted him to re-open the inquiry this way? He dropped the case, and he doesn't seems to be an idiot, so he must think that he has a pretty good reason to do that.
...Are you sure you're not overestimating Comey's intelligence?
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Sergarr

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #9091 on: October 31, 2016, 08:42:18 am »

FBI director James Comey could be facing criminal charges for breaking the "Hatch Act" law, which prohibits FBI officials from influencing politics.
Democratic fraction leader Harry Reid wrote him a letter of accusation and has called for an inquiry.


WTF did he find in these e-mails that prompted him to re-open the inquiry this way? He dropped the case, and he doesn't seems to be an idiot, so he must think that he has a pretty good reason to do that.
He didn't even get a warrant in order to actually see their contents before he has sent that letter to Congress, he just "informed" them that they have discovered 3 emails that may have been unaccounted for before. I say "may" and mean "they were already in the batch that FBI was investigating, as it turned out".

Also, he didn't "re-open" anything, it's pure Trumpist Republican spin.

He's also going to get fired for this political stunt within a month, almost certainly. FBI cannot afford to tarnish its image by having its director abuse their power to influence the political process.
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sluissa

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #9092 on: October 31, 2016, 08:47:55 am »

If you'd read the actual letter he send to congress, it wasn't as dramatic as the media is saying it is.

He is in all fairness just keeping the congressional committee who was also investigating it all in the loop about what they found as well.

If he'd hidden it and it came out afterwards, he'd have been screwed. If he brings it up now, he's screwed.

There was no good outcome for this so being as open as he could about it is about the best he can do.

The left are idiots, the right are idiots. Comey in this particular instance is just stuck in the middle holding a handful of crap.
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Phmcw

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #9093 on: October 31, 2016, 08:48:18 am »

Quote
In previous congressional testimony, l referred to the fact that the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) had completed its investigation of former Secretary Clinton's personal email server. Due to recent developments, I am writing to supplement my previous testimony.

In connection with an unrelated case, the FBI has learned of the existence of emails that appear to be pertinent to the investigation. I am writing to inform you that the investigative team briefed me on this yesterday, and I agreed that the FBI should take appropriate investigative steps designed to allow investigators to review these emails to determine whether they contain classified information, as well as to assess their importance to our investigation.

Although the FBI cannot yet assess whether or not this material may be significant, and I cannot predict how long it will take us to complete this additional work, I believe it is important to update your Committees about our efforts in light of my previous testimony.

This is the letter I quote : "I agreed that the FBI should take appropriate investigative steps designed to allow investigators to review these emails to determine whether they contain classified information, as well as to assess their importance to our investigation."

So basically they got new e-mails and are saying that they may contain proofs that there actually were classified information in those.
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Sergarr

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #9094 on: October 31, 2016, 08:58:38 am »

If you'd read the actual letter he send to congress, it wasn't as dramatic as the media is saying it is.

He is in all fairness just keeping the congressional committee who was also investigating it all in the loop about what they found as well.

If he'd hidden it and it came out afterwards, he'd have been screwed. If he brings it up now, he's screwed.

There was no good outcome for this so being as open as he could about it is about the best he can do.

The left are idiots, the right are idiots. Comey in this particular instance is just stuck in the middle holding a handful of crap.
Well, actually FBI isn't supposed to inform the public, Congress, or anyone else about the proceedings of an investigation matter, only about their results, because otherwise stuff like this non-scandal happens.

What Comey did was wrong, so he'll get his proper punishment. Either he'll resign in disgrace, or he'll be fired by Obama for failing to maintain neutrality and professional behavior. Otherwise the FBI will be turned once again into a political instrument, to be overtaken and abused by the Democrats and Republicans in a struggle against each other.

Meanwhile, let me make a short prediction into the future and say that sometime soon, Russian FSB agents will be discovered attempting to make malicious alterations to USA voting machines in swing states.
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smjjames

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #9095 on: October 31, 2016, 09:02:49 am »

BTW guys, there's a twist here, the emails aren't on Huma Abedin's laptop as one might think, but they were found on her husbands laptop.

How the emails got to where they shouldn't be (IF they shouldn't be there), we'll find out sooner or later. And yeah, Comey is totally screwed, but then, he also majorly screwed up in several ways.

Quote
In previous congressional testimony, l referred to the fact that the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) had completed its investigation of former Secretary Clinton's personal email server. Due to recent developments, I am writing to supplement my previous testimony.

In connection with an unrelated case, the FBI has learned of the existence of emails that appear to be pertinent to the investigation. I am writing to inform you that the investigative team briefed me on this yesterday, and I agreed that the FBI should take appropriate investigative steps designed to allow investigators to review these emails to determine whether they contain classified information, as well as to assess their importance to our investigation.

Although the FBI cannot yet assess whether or not this material may be significant, and I cannot predict how long it will take us to complete this additional work, I believe it is important to update your Committees about our efforts in light of my previous testimony.

This is the letter I quote : "I agreed that the FBI should take appropriate investigative steps designed to allow investigators to review these emails to determine whether they contain classified information, as well as to assess their importance to our investigation."

So basically they got new e-mails and are saying that they may contain proofs that there actually were classified information in those.

Except that they were completely vague, they may as well be saying that the emails don't contain proof.
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Phmcw

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #9096 on: October 31, 2016, 09:07:04 am »

Your story is basically this : a guys with the highest references for his job screwed up completely at his job, and in a way he should have understood perfectly.
This is not a technical fuckup, or something that you can really mislead yourself over : you're telling me he steered right into a brick wall.


So my question is : why? Said like this it doesn't really makes sense! Does he have any reason to try and sacrifice his career to influence the election?
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Reelya

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #9097 on: October 31, 2016, 09:11:06 am »

Well, the articles are saying that checking the security levels of these emails, which is the relevant information, is going to take months because they need to be screened by the correct security agencies. Clearly this is just raising questions before the election, which can't actually be answered until well after the new President is sworn in. That doesn't sound very professional, or like it's in the interests of having an informed electorate.

And they're not even saying they have any proof that these emails are any different to the ones they've already investigated, so it's just that they found another HD with relevant emails on it. Which I think you could basically do every week of the year given how many people Clinton's communicated with.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 09:15:32 am by Reelya »
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smjjames

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #9098 on: October 31, 2016, 09:14:28 am »

Your story is basically this : a guys with the highest references for his job screwed up completely at his job, and in a way he should have understood perfectly.
This is not a technical fuckup, or something that you can really mislead yourself over : you're telling me he steered right into a brick wall.


So my question is : why? Said like this it doesn't really makes sense! Does he have any reason to try and sacrifice his career to influence the election?

Because it's 2016?

More seriously, I have no idea, and it's more likely that he simply screwed up majorly under incredible amounts of pressure. As the quote goes 'Never assume malice where stupidity is to blame' (may not be the exact quote), Occams Razor basically.

I don't think anyone here is saying that his actions were intentional to screw up the election. Regardless, he did commit a rather grave error here, though I imagine the case was presented to him as such:

    1) Say something now about the discovered emails and have them turn out to be nothing, ruining your career but at least trying to make up your earlier mistakes.
    2) Say something now about the discovered emails and have them include a smoking gun, boosting your career significantly for the publicity of arresting Clinton
    3) Say nothing and have them turn out to be nothing. No one would know a thing.
    4) Say nothing and have them turn out to be a smoking gun. She'd be arrested, but Congress would want your head for not informing them sooner, especially if she was elected beforehand.


So, it was two choices here. One choice had significant risk but significant reward. The other had significant risk but no reward. Which would you choose?

He was supposed to follow protocol, that's what I would have chosen.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 09:16:12 am by smjjames »
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Starver

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #9099 on: October 31, 2016, 09:15:19 am »

Right now, I'm half expecting that he willingly offered himself up to the Clinton camp as an apparent shill for Trump (who he genuinely hates and/or fears) that they could reasonably make a huge case against in the closeing days of the election to tip the balance their way and get sympathy from the logical swing-voters who hadn't yet set their votes in stone. Of course, it had to look 'real'.

Which means I' m a quarter expecting that he is pro-Trump, went to the Clinton camp with the 'plan' then, whoops, overdid it... Sorry!

And then I'm an eighth expecting that...   YGTI.
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #9100 on: October 31, 2016, 09:15:29 am »

Your story is basically this : a guys with the highest references for his job screwed up completely at his job, and in a way he should have understood perfectly.
This is not a technical fuckup, or something that you can really mislead yourself over : you're telling me he steered right into a brick wall.


So my question is : why? Said like this it doesn't really makes sense! Does he have any reason to try and sacrifice his career to influence the election?
Ummm... Maybe Comey's actually an idiot?

Like, seriously, that's my hypothesis.
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smjjames

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #9101 on: October 31, 2016, 09:18:42 am »

Your story is basically this : a guys with the highest references for his job screwed up completely at his job, and in a way he should have understood perfectly.
This is not a technical fuckup, or something that you can really mislead yourself over : you're telling me he steered right into a brick wall.


So my question is : why? Said like this it doesn't really makes sense! Does he have any reason to try and sacrifice his career to influence the election?
Ummm... Maybe Comey's actually an idiot?

Like, seriously, that's my hypothesis.

More like broke down under immense pressure in what is effectively a lose-lose situation and gave in to partianship.

Though the blowback is completely bipartisan.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 09:21:30 am by smjjames »
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Phmcw

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #9102 on: October 31, 2016, 09:19:11 am »

Your story is basically this : a guys with the highest references for his job screwed up completely at his job, and in a way he should have understood perfectly.
This is not a technical fuckup, or something that you can really mislead yourself over : you're telling me he steered right into a brick wall.


So my question is : why? Said like this it doesn't really makes sense! Does he have any reason to try and sacrifice his career to influence the election?
Ummm... Maybe Comey's actually an idiot?

Like, seriously, that's my hypothesis.

All other comment since have their merits, but yours can be debunked with one look at his CV. Intelligent peoples can make moronic mistakes outside their fields of expertise, and intelligent peoples can have views misaligned with reality, but not screw up in their domain of expertise like this.
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smjjames

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #9103 on: October 31, 2016, 09:24:29 am »

And even intelligent people can cave under massive amounts of pressure and make mistakes. Though it seems like he was trying to make the best of a lose-lose situation and badly miscalculated.
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Phmcw

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #9104 on: October 31, 2016, 09:26:53 am »

Yeah, "he's an idiot" doesn't really work in this context. My hypothesis is that he gambled on a chance and lost, over the alternative of not gambling and losing anyway. A tragic figure, really.

He could have simply followed the protocol, whatever it is. Which is exactly what I would expect of an experienced, life-long bureaucrat.
Quote

More seriously, I have no idea, and it's more likely that he simply screwed up majorly under incredible amounts of pressure. As the quote goes 'Never assume malice where stupidity is to blame' (may not be the exact quote), Occams Razor basically.


Occams Razor doesn't work with history. If you don't believe me study WW1 and WW2 closely. Or any period of history, really. Or biology.


My guess is that he think that he have something big. I don't see any reason why he would have dropped the investigation initially, then sent an e-mail like that.


I would even wager that he found some of the deleted e-mails.
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