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Author Topic: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0  (Read 1393276 times)

Neonivek

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8415 on: October 23, 2016, 04:07:40 pm »

You can still sue the President for stuff he did (outside acts "as the president")

They just get delayed until he is out of office... For the good of the people... >_>
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Culise

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8416 on: October 23, 2016, 04:11:20 pm »

You can still sue the President for stuff he did (outside acts "as the president")

They just get delayed until he is out of office... For the good of the people... >_>
Nope; look at the entire discussion.  Specifically and again, Clinton v. Jones: the USSC decided unanimously to uphold the overturn of the original decision (which was precisely to delay it until he left office).  As such, the lawsuit was allowed to proceed, and summary judgment reached in 1998. 
...
Well, I didn't say they were *fast* about it.  Just that they didn't delay until after he left office.
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smjjames

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8417 on: October 23, 2016, 04:11:39 pm »

So what happens to the 100+ Lawsuits Trump currently has when he becomes President? are they delayed? Thrown out?
This thing says US pressies have virtual immunity so they would have to be delayed or they'd go nowhere even if there was a case to be made
Linked from that article here, immunity against civil lawsuits only applies to job-related actions in civil actions (Nixon v. Fitzgerald).  However, as mainiac notes above you, this does not apply to actions taken before assuming the presidency and unrelated to the office itself (Clinton v. Jones); in unanimous ruling, it was decided that presidential immunity against private civil lawsuits does not mandate that all private civil lawsuits must be deferred to the end of the term.  Trump does not gain immunity for a priori acts due to becoming president.  Related, it also does not apply to criminal charges (Nixon, again).

Yeah that, though the Monica Lewinsky thing was during his adminstration and the perjury thing seems to be a spin off of the Paula Jones case, not sure.
He was never brought up on civil charges for Lewinsky, to my knowledge, and making the case that an affair with her was an official act exercising the powers of the Presidency (and thus not subject to civil lawsuit) might have been a mite bit tricky; I'm unaware of statutes that called for the President sleeping with their aide.  The impeachment was a criminal, not civil proceeding and thus not affected by Nixon v. Fitzgerald; again, all of the charges (two counts of perjury, one count of obstruction of justice, one count of abuse of power) were criminal in nature.  The fact that he committed the criminal acts for which impeachment passed (one of perjury, one of obstruction) during the course of a civil lawsuit is irrelevant.

Heh, I can see Trump somehow trying to spin that groping is an official act of the presidency if he got caught doing it. Though just having an affair doesn't in itself, break any laws.
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mainiac

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8418 on: October 23, 2016, 04:13:59 pm »

Yeah, he wasn't charged for the affair, he was charged for lying about it.
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Neonivek

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8419 on: October 23, 2016, 05:14:58 pm »

Yeah, he wasn't charged for the affair, he was charged for lying about it.

Which if he was charged today they say they wouldn't have impeached him.

Because at the time it was more that the President was being held to a high standard.

---

Hey does anyone remember back when the President of the United States was quite often the GOOD guy in movies?
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misko27

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8420 on: October 23, 2016, 05:21:57 pm »

Because at the time it was more that the President was being held to a high standard.
Only two Presidents have ever been impeached (Nixon resigned to preempt it). Bill Clinton and Andrew Johnson. Both of them were politically motivated, and Andrew Johnson only barely survived his impeachment; he survived the two-thirds requirement in the house by only a single vote, after seven Republicans crossed party lines to vote against it.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8421 on: October 23, 2016, 05:23:47 pm »

Hey does anyone remember back when the President of the United States was quite often the GOOD guy in movies?
Kevin Spacey is totally the good guy in HOC

Neonivek

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8422 on: October 23, 2016, 05:24:01 pm »

Because at the time it was more that the President was being held to a high standard.
Only two Presidents have ever been impeached (Nixon resigned to preempt it). Bill Clinton and Andrew Johnson. Both of them were politically motivated, and Andrew Johnson only barely survived his impeachment; he survived the two-thirds requirement in the house by only a single vote, after seven Republicans crossed party lines to vote against it.

So is what your saying is that they were Impeached less because they thought they did something terrible and needed to be carted out of office (Like Nixon)...

And more because they were playing the political game?
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Starver

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8423 on: October 23, 2016, 05:38:11 pm »

"We are behind, but we can catch up" - Trump

I raised my eyebrows at that, I must admit...
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Leafsnail

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8424 on: October 23, 2016, 05:43:05 pm »

I mean Karl Rove admitted that Trump is screwed. The guy who insisted that Romney would win even as the election was being called for Obama.
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Dorsidwarf

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8425 on: October 23, 2016, 05:49:26 pm »

Hey does anyone remember back when the President of the United States was quite often the GOOD guy in movies?
Kevin Spacey is totally the good guy in HOC
Kevin Spacey is totally the good guy in CoD
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smjjames

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8426 on: October 23, 2016, 06:11:41 pm »

Because at the time it was more that the President was being held to a high standard.
Only two Presidents have ever been impeached (Nixon resigned to preempt it). Bill Clinton and Andrew Johnson. Both of them were politically motivated, and Andrew Johnson only barely survived his impeachment; he survived the two-thirds requirement in the house by only a single vote, after seven Republicans crossed party lines to vote against it.

So is what your saying is that they were Impeached less because they thought they did something terrible and needed to be carted out of office (Like Nixon)...

And more because they were playing the political game?

Aside from Nixon, yeah, they were using the impeachment proccess for political gain. The one with Andrew Johnson seems to be the dynamics going on with reconstruction. With Bill Clinton, I'm not sure what the political gain (or game) was, besides 'Bill Clinton is a horrible person and must pay for his crimes!'.
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Max™

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8427 on: October 23, 2016, 06:25:57 pm »

Honestly, until they said the "Live from New York" bit I wasn't sure if it was just clips from the debate.

Ooh, ooh, I got bingo!
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mainiac

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8428 on: October 23, 2016, 07:02:07 pm »

Aside from Nixon, yeah, they were using the impeachment proccess for political gain.

Jackson had it coming.

Bastard.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8429 on: October 23, 2016, 07:03:05 pm »

Honestly, until they said the "Live from New York" bit I wasn't sure if it was just clips from the debate.

Ooh, ooh, I got bingo!
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