Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Is the serial killer in question named Ted Cruz? Because that effects my answer.

[alway]

The "leaks" come from kompromat ops whose concern for the truth is less than their concern for the mental wellbeing of their chicken dinner. They don't care about informing you, they care about using information to manipulate you, and only a moron would take information with such a goal when it's entire purpose is to mislead.

[martinuzz]

What the holy fuck? According to a poll held by Reuters amongst republican voters, 70% of those believe that if Hillary wins, it must have been rigged.
Meanwhile, the same poll held amongst democratic voters shows the opposite numbers. 70% will accept Trump as legitimately chosen president if he were elected.

....70%.. Holy crap. I need to start investing in firearms, I'll get rich over the US civil war.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Yeeaaaaahh, I'm just gonna need you to do a methodology check on that one, and that would be greeeaaaaat.

[Max™]

To cut straight through the bullshit: election fraud is not actually a problem, we aren't starved for methods to keep things accurate and verifiable.

So, given all the people jumping up and down screaming about election fraud, rigging, and the need for observers and monitors and watchmen to watch the watchmen... what can we conclude?

If there isn't actually a significant amount of fraud because again, we're talking way below margin of error shit, ~10 or even ~100 votes out of 100 million being due to fraud is a hell of a thing, even in Florida.

Acting as though we need armies of additional outside groups watching the polls makes it seem like there are people rushing in there with pants full of fake ballots all the time, which is really awkward with the electronic machines in place, let me tell ya.

On the other hand, adding arbitrary hoops to jump through when voting, like say, a whole bunch of unfamiliar people standing around "keeping an eye on things" in addition to the people who are actually there to keep an eye on things, well, this is when we start getting to use terms like "voter intimidation" and "disenfranchisement" and those aren't fun words to deal with.

It's bad enough having one of our own assholes spouting off about it being rigged and telling people "go down and keep an eye on things" but at least he has a horse in the race.

Another country, unless say, asked to help out, doesn't have a right or whatever to be there. Letting uninvolved third parties take part and returning the favor is cool.

Various groups in Russia are arguably trying to become involved third parties, so telling them to fuck off is cool too. They've shown they have a specific interest in influencing the outcome of the race, so they can't be trusted to do anything involving it, much less trying to keep it free of fraud and corruption.

If the bodies wanting to send over observers would be so kind as to help us out by sending over the hackers and any information they've obtained first, we'd be happy to accomodate their contribution to keeping the election honest, and if that's too high of a hurdle to clear: tough?

[Neonivek]

You would thing Trump would know he has a responsibility to be honest about Voter fraud because he should know people, for some unfathomable reason, listen to him...

But ehh Civil War 2 is just as good.

[UXLZ]

If the bodies wanting to send over observers would be so kind as to help us out by sending over the hackers and any information they've obtained first, we'd be happy to accommodate their contribution to keeping the election honest, and if that's too high of a hurdle to clear: tough?

What, so the poor sods can be looked away forever (or commit tragic "suicide") and the evidence of corruption wiped clean? No thank you. Wherever those hackers are and whoever they are, I hope they stay the hell away from US soil.

which is really awkward with the electronic machines in place

You mean the electronic machines which are extraordinarily susceptible to tampering and can have their results changed by what is effectively editing a text document?

election fraud is not actually a problem, we aren't starved for methods to keep things accurate and verifiable.

Fair is fair. It just depends on whether or not those methods are used (not really) and whether the results of those methods are actually given any attention (also nope.) Fraud committed by voters is basically nonexistent and irrelevant, definitely. Fraud committed by political parties, well...

[Max™]

Oh, and just in case it is brought up: I don't care who someone is voting for, intimidating or otherwise preventing them from voting is fucked up, and degrades the whole system. The time to convince someone to vote one way or the other is before they get out to the polls, trying to do so there, or worse, turning them away chips at the foundation of trust which the whole system is built on.

If the bodies wanting to send over observers would be so kind as to help us out by sending over the hackers and any information they've obtained first, we'd be happy to accommodate their contribution to keeping the election honest, and if that's too high of a hurdle to clear: tough?

What, so the poor sods can be looked away forever (or commit tragic "suicide") and the evidence of corruption wiped clean? No thank you. Wherever those hackers are and whoever they are, I hope they stay the hell away from US soil.

Hey, I agree, and wouldn't expect it to be done, but I don't see a problem with setting that as a bar for letting anyone else from somewhere that's been trying to tamper take any official part in the process, yanno?

which is really awkward with the electronic machines in place

You mean the electronic machines which are extraordinarily susceptible to tampering and can have their results changed by what is effectively editing a text document?

Well yeah, some of them are scarily easy to fuck with...

I was actually making a joke about the funny idea of ballot box stuffing with an electronic voting machine, but you know what isn't going to help make them more accurate?

If you guessed "random outside observers intimidating voters" or "totally honest random outside observers who definitely don't have any sort of interest in hacking the machines" you're on the right track.

Fraud committed by voters is basically nonexistent and irrelevant, definitely. Fraud committed by political parties, well...

Again, how exactly does having people called in to "keep an eye on things" by one loud segment of one party help?

[UXLZ]

Oh, and just in case it is brought up: I don't care who someone is voting for, intimidating or otherwise preventing them from voting is fucked up, and degrades the whole system. The time to convince someone to vote one way or the other is before they get out to the polls, trying to do so there, or worse, turning them away chips at the foundation of trust which the whole system is built on.

I don't think many Sanders supporters have much trust for the system anymore, given all the "Accidents" that happened during the primaries. I agree though, intimidation or trying to prevent people from voting (or campaigning at the polls) is awful. I was under the impression that the observers were mostly there to watch the counting side of things, though? Doesn't seem to be much point to having them standing at the entrance or whatever.

[Neonivek]

Oh, and just in case it is brought up: I don't care who someone is voting for, intimidating or otherwise preventing them from voting is fucked up, and degrades the whole system. The time to convince someone to vote one way or the other is before they get out to the polls, trying to do so there, or worse, turning them away chips at the foundation of trust which the whole system is built on.

I don't think many Sanders supporters have much trust for the system anymore, given all the "Accidents" that happened during the primaries. I agree though, intimidation or trying to prevent people from voting (or campaigning at the polls) is awful. I was under the impression that the observers were mostly there to watch the counting side of things, though? Doesn't seem to be much point to having them standing at the entrance or whatever.

The problem is this Rhetoric has been used FAAAAAAAAAAR more often for unscrupulous efforts then for legitimate purposes.

Especially since Trump never said he would hire some sort of impartial third party...

He is specifically putting HIS OWN GUYS in there and is asking HIS voters to do the same.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

There's no proof of outright fraud in the primaries, just party establishment trying to help Clinton because she's their pinnacle of creation. I was and am a Sanders supporter and I think your distant view of the election has been badly warped by media coverage. Stop making me defend the DNC and Hill Dawg, it makes me want to shower until my skin goes raw.

God, is this what it feels like for maniac every day?

[Max™]

I was under the impression that the observers were mostly there to watch the counting side of things, though? Doesn't seem to be much point to having them standing at the entrance or whatever.

Yeah, he's saying to make sure people don't "try to sneak in and vote twice", suggesting they check ID, and I don't think he's directly said "discourage them from voting for Hillary" but I wouldn't be surprised at this point.

Simply having an extra layer of people "hanging out" around the polling place to "keep an eye out" can wind up making people nervous, discouraging them, and so forth.

That is exactly what Trump has been saying to do.

[Max™]

I feel the need to double post for this, I think it's a republican hindu convention event for Trump?

Highlights: Michael Jackson impersonator, dancers attacked by jihadi impersonators, and a rescue by navy seal impersonators?

https://twitter.com/ArifCRafiq/status/787425879492296704?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I'm seriously starting to consider the idea that 2016 is actually the political satire parallel universe reaching a tipping point and entering our consensus reality.

[Dorsidwarf]

What the fuck is happening here.

Reelya why are you arguing that the US should let "observers" from a hostile party interested in maximising chaos into a position where they can cause a significant degree of chaos, based on the idea that nations should for some reason place 'fairness' over stability?

Also, what's with the pushing of all maniac's FUCKYOUFUCKYOU buttons. You know how he reacts to vague/esoteric arguments like that.