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[smjjames]

I'm not talking about bombing anybody, I just meant having a tougher stance in general and there are things that he could have done with Syria that he didn't do.

Of course though, the only other president that I've really seen the foriegn policy of is George W. Bush. i did personally know that Clinton got involved in the Balkan wars and there was that thing in Somalia, but I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to politics during the Clinton era. So, my view on the foriegn policy stuff is colored somewhat by not experiencing a less warmongery president beforehand like Clinton.

tl;dr

I'm probably still a bit of a political 'young'un' and don't really know much better.

[nenjin]

That was in response to misko27's rant.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Clearly the only answer to this is a poll and some sort of forum game to create Bay12's fantastical political 4 square.

Now that'd be a nightmare to find axis for. Leftist-Postleftist x Transhumanist-Biochauvinist? It's even got the bias already built in!

[smjjames]

That was in response to misko27's rant.

My post was also in response to misko, I just didn't quote him.

[nenjin]

That was in response to misko27's rant.

My post was also in response to misko, I just didn't quote him.

...touche.

Clearly the only answer to this is a poll and some sort of forum game to create Bay12's fantastical political 4 square.

Now that'd be a nightmare to find axis for. Leftist-Postleftist x Transhumanist-Biochauvinist? It's even got the bias already built in!

I dare you. I double dog dare you.

[Antioch]

I'm not talking about bombing anybody, I just meant having a tougher stance in general and there are things that he could have done with Syria that he didn't do.

Of course though, the only other president that I've really seen the foriegn policy of is George W. Bush. i did personally know that Clinton got involved in the Balkan wars and there was that thing in Somalia, but I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to politics during the Clinton era. So, my view on the foriegn policy stuff is colored somewhat by not experiencing a less warmongery president beforehand like Clinton.

Foreign policy isn't all about war. Obama for instance brokered the nuclear deal with Iran and normalized relations with Cuba.

Not really sure what could have been done in Syria though, Syria is just an impossible situation with so many actors having influence on the war.

[nenjin]

Yeah, I don't like the situation in Syria but I do not believe much anything else could be done without making a bad situation even worse. We tried arming and training the rebels, we tried supplying them, we tried airstrikes, we tried no fly zones, we tried diplomacy multiple times. The Russians, Shias, Sunnis, practically every regional power with some interest in it. We've done what we could without effectively setting the stage for WW3. Still not sure it won't be the case due to those Russians the US hit in an airstrike. I didn't always feel this way but as the years have dragged on and I've watched thing after thing fail, I can't fault the Obama administration for not trying.

[misko27]

The only option was to go all-out before it started. Now the equilibrium of the opposing powers means that it doesn't have to end anytime soon. It can just keep killing people. I mean I think it will have to slow down eventually, but this could go on for another decade perhaps.

Also, I'm pissed because I want to go to my college's public viewing of the debate, but I also want to be in the Bay12 Chat for the last debate before a general election. And my computer's charger is dead, so my computer only works if plugged in at all times. So either commandeer a corner with a charger and miss the point of going to a public viewing in the first place, stay at home and miss the chance to make friends at all, or go without and miss the jokes. Sigh. DECISIONS.

[smjjames]

we tried no fly zones,

No we didn't. There was talk of them, yes, but they never got implemented, so, we never tried them in actuality.

Yeah, I don't like the situation in Syria but I do not believe much anything else could be done without making a bad situation even worse. We tried arming and training the rebels, we tried supplying them, we tried airstrikes, we tried no fly zones, we tried diplomacy multiple times. The Russians, Shias, Sunnis, practically every regional power with some interest in it. We've done what we could without effectively setting the stage for WW3. Still not sure it won't be the case due to those Russians the US hit in an airstrike. I didn't always feel this way but as the years have dragged on and I've watched thing after thing fail, I can't fault the Obama administration for not trying.

I'm not saying that we didn't try either. But yeah, its evolved into a strange mess of proxy wars (or even proxy-proxy wars, if that makes any sense) with almost every major power, both regional and international involved. About the only major one not involved is China, despite rumors.

It's like Syria has become a microcosm of the whole mideast mess along with the inter-geopolitics involved, concentrated into a (relatively) small region.

[FearfulJesuit]

Friendly reminded that you can join the official debate popcorn IRC channel at irc.sorcery.net #bay12debate.

[smjjames]

Quicklink is at: http://sorcery.net/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=69

Just adding that in.

[Sergarr]

we tried no fly zones,

No we didn't. There was talk of them, yes, but they never got implemented, so, we never tried them in actuality.

Well formally you didn't, yes. De-facto there are some weak attempts to enforce something similar in places, though - Coalition's spec ops embedded within Kurds, NSA and IIRC Turkish FSA operate under Coalition's protection from the air, and they get very agitated when someone tries to bomb them.

[smirk]

Quicklink is at: http://sorcery.net/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=69

Just adding that in.

I'm gonna be late to this one; still have doin's that need doin' beforehand. Don't use up all the snark before I get there.

Misko, I'd say probably go with yer college's public viewing. Heckling these kinds of things is always more fun in person.

[PTTG??]

Now I'm going to have to make some new diamond charts.

[misko27]

Misko, I'd say probably go with yer college's public viewing. Heckling these kinds of things is always more fun in person.

My roommates have suddenly decided to stage an impromptu party between the four of them and it's pissing me off (music, giggling = things that don't go with debates).

I'm definitely going now if I wasn't before. Sorry folks. You'll have to survive without my wit for the  night. Maybe I'll find an outlet somewhere discreet.