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[mainiac]

So, your an expert on the backstage scene of beauty pageants then?

I'm not a meteorologist but I know the difference between rain and someone peeing on my shoe.

The defining behavior of a denialist is to insist on always having doubt and always insisting on more and more proof no matter what.

[nenjin]

Also I find it quite amusing that you are going to such lengths to defend the right of beauty pageant contestants to not be looked upon in a lewd manner. I'm pretty sure they were expecting that sort of thing when they signed up.

Ah, the old "She's asking for it" defense.

Guess what. It's illegal to rape a prostitute, despite the fact he/she's a sex worker.

[Sergarr]

Also I find it quite amusing that you are going to such lengths to defend the right of beauty pageant contestants to not be looked upon in a lewd manner. I'm pretty sure they were expecting that sort of thing when they signed up.

...Did you just try to defend creepy old men, like Trump, perving on children by saying that "they've signed up for that"? I'm pretty sure that's not how it works.

[Neonivek]

Also I find it quite amusing that you are going to such lengths to defend the right of beauty pageant contestants to not be looked upon in a lewd manner. I'm pretty sure they were expecting that sort of thing when they signed up.

Ah, the old "She's asking for it" defense.

If she is on stage I will defend it on the basis that it is a work hazard AND that you would be punishing people for thought crimes. It would be ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Don't like it, don't sign up.

If we are talking about back stage glances? Ok, same thing I guess.

If we are talking about people sneaking into the backstage, into dressing rooms, or into the showers? No... No no no!

The "Asking for it" excuse only works if the person creates a situation where the result MUST be that... and in no way are the contestants creating a situation where a person is forced to sneak into their dressing rooms.

Also I find it quite amusing that you are going to such lengths to defend the right of beauty pageant contestants to not be looked upon in a lewd manner. I'm pretty sure they were expecting that sort of thing when they signed up.

...Did you just try to defend creepy old men, like Trump, perving on children by saying that "they've signed up for that"? I'm pretty sure that's not how it works.

If we are talking about Child Beauty Pageants... That is a WHOLE OTHER can of worms.

[nenjin]

Pretty sure in any event, they didn't sign up for a beauty pageant so they would have to be topless for other people's amusement.

[mainiac]

It's almost like there are reasons for women to make themselves attractive besides male sexual gratification.

[Neonivek]

Pretty sure in any event, they didn't sign up for a beauty pageant so they would have to be topless for other people's amusement.

Even if they were... There are reasons why the dressing room isn't surrounded by see through glass.

It's almost like there are reasons for women to make themselves attractive besides male sexual gratification.

What is odd is how contested this point sometimes is... by the same people xD

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Trump's comments were clearly along the lines of "since I own the pageant they don't have any way to stop me from peeping on them", which is fucked up regardless of whether or not his statement is true. In fact, even more concerning for the election than the sex crime is the way he proudly brags about abusing what authority he has.

That shit has no business being in any political position, owning any company, or even being in middle management.

[mainiac]

All forms of management even.

[Rolan7]

It's almost like there are reasons for women to make themselves attractive besides male sexual gratification.

Yeah, this is true.

Although let's not pretend that people in beauty pageants aren't consenting to ogling.  It's literally a competition of attractiveness, including sexual.  These people are asking for "it"... though "it" in this case does not involve physical contact.  Or the bankroller hanging out backstage for no good reason, barging into changing rooms.  The power dynamic *alone* makes that creepy.

[Neonivek]

It's almost like there are reasons for women to make themselves attractive besides male sexual gratification.

Yeah, this is true.

Although let's not pretend that people in beauty pageants aren't consenting to ogling.  It's literally a competition of attractiveness, including sexual.  These people are asking for "it"... though "it" in this case does not involve physical contact.  Or the bankroller hanging out backstage for no good reason, barging into changing rooms.  The power dynamic *alone* makes that creepy.

The ironic part is beauty pageants for adults are less sexual then beauty pageants for children.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

All forms of management even.

inb4 SG posts about how all the managers he's ever met are collectible Donald Trump figurines.

Although let's not pretend that people in beauty pageants aren't consenting to ogling.  It's literally a competition of attractiveness, including sexual.  These people are asking for "it"... though "it" in this case does not involve physical contact.  Or the bankroller hanging out backstage for no good reason, barging into changing rooms.  The power dynamic *alone* makes that creepy.

Participating in a beauty pageant of one's own free will is consent to being ogled while onstage. And certainly anybody experienced in something that involves backstage costume changes is eventually going to just decide to strip down and let it all hang out while backstage, because that's practical for staying on schedule and getting everything done in time. But the reason for that is that the backstage is the backstage, and there are only certain people who you reasonably expect to be back there, such as in this case other women participating in the pageant.

As opposed to Donald Trump.

[Mephansteras]

Trump's comments were clearly along the lines of "since I own the pageant they don't have any way to stop me from peeping on them", which is fucked up regardless of whether or not his statement is true. In fact, even more concerning for the election than the sex crime is the way he proudly brags about abusing what authority he has.

That shit has no business being in any political position, owning any company, or even being in middle management.

Precisely.

Especially since the ethical thing to do, especially with underage contestants, would be for him to hire a female staffer to do those inspections. But why would Trump do that when he can just walk in and stare at the ladies? Why even run pageants if you can't objectify the contestants to your heart's desire, right?

Makes me sick.

And, honestly, at this point I think Folly is just trolling us. He's getting a ton of responses for everything he says after all, so I think I'll just ignore him from now on. He's either a troll or his moral guidelines are so far from mine I seriously doubt we could have a useful conversation.

[nenjin]

Point is pageant contest, stewardess, prostitute, whatever vaguely or explicitly sexualized job a woman takes on....it is their choice when and where to fill that role. Just because someone agrees to put on a bathing suit in front of a crowd and smile for the camera doesn't make it open season on her body whenever the fuck a man feels like it. And Trump is essentially saying yes, that is my privilege.

[mainiac]

Although let's not pretend that people in beauty pageants aren't consenting to ogling.

I'm not so sure about this.  A woman in attractive clothes in an office full of sexist men might expect to be ogled but I dont consider that her consenting to ogling just for wearing attractive clothing.  Yes a woman in a swimsuit contest is consenting to being judged on her appearance but so is a man or woman in a bodybuilding contest.

Maybe this argument would make sense back in the 50s but it's $CURRENT_YEAR and we have an internet full of pornography.  If you want to ogle women then there are plenty of women who did consent to being ogled just one google search away.  Anyone who ogles pageants instead of porn is doing it wrong.