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[Reelya]

Okay, I have to ask because it comes up a lot from the right: there's a lot of accusations that Clinton deleted some 30000-odd emails after that whole crap started popping up. Is that substantiated by anything or no? If yes, then why the hell did the FBI not take that into consideration in that big 'ol shpeel they published on the thing? Actually, on thinking about it, I think they did mention a bunch of deleted emails, which they managed to recover one way or another. So why the hell is this still a thing?

Basically, the FBI noticed that Hilary had been illegally using a private email server so they demanded that she turn over the server to them immediately so they could analyze it to determine if any confidential files had been compromised. Hilary basically refused, and did nothing for several months, while making no comment to the press or anyone else. Then one day she finally speaks up to say they she is fully cooperating with the FBI and turning over her email servers. Oh, except for the 30,000ish emails that were deleted and the hard drives scrubbed so that the data would be unrecoverable, and also several hard drives that somehow got physically destroyed with a hammer, all of which occurred after the FBI made their demands. But yeah, she's fully cooperating.

That was a couple of old mobile phones that got hit with a hammer, not hard drives.

[Cheeetar]

Crooked Hilary

Oh dear.

[birdy51]

I wished once upon a time to pretend Trump might possibly be a good candidate, but honestly? Even if Hillary had deleted all those emails deliberately, I wouldn't give a shit.

[Reelya]

There's also the fact that the law requiring the use of government emails was only passed in 2014, making the whole "illegal private email server" thing kinda moot. There were laws about handling classified material, but those laws don't specifically address "private email servers" or the like. The question would be whether her system was more or less secure than the state department alternative (which got hacked btw, whereas Clinton's system did not).

Turns out, that back in the day, while they were warning Hillary that her use of a private email server was potentially unsafe and could be hacked, they were also warning her that the state department email system was unsafe and could be hacked. So I kinda think that saying "well why didn't she listen about the private email server being potentially hackable!?!" argument kinda ignores the fact that the alternative was to put everything onto a system that they were also telling Clinton was a hack-magnet, and which did in fact get hacked according to news.

[sluissa]

I'm reminded of probably my favorite quote from this series of books:

“The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.
To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.
To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.”
― Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Sergarr]

Crooked Hilary

Oh dear.

Oh yeah, just noticed that. I suspected something from the Red Pill talk moment, but that confirms it.

Also I like it how Hillary is called Crooked for email thing. I guess that makes the last Republican President Ultra Crooked, because he done the same thing, only instead of 30000 emails, he deleted away 22 millions.

But of course, since he's male, white, Republican, and a President to boot, he gets away with that scot-free, no constant media/Internet attacks or anything.

[Wolfhunter107]

It probably also helps that there's no political advantage to going after his emails.

[Strife26]

Crooked Hilary

Oh dear.

Oh yeah, just noticed that. I suspected something from the Red Pill talk moment, but that confirms it.

Also I like it how Hillary is called Crooked for email thing. I guess that makes the last Republican President Ultra Crooked, because he done the same thing, only instead of 30000 emails, he deleted away 22 millions.

But of course, since he's male, white, Republican, and a President to boot, he gets away with that scot-free, no constant media/Internet attacks or anything.

Or because he's not currently a serious political actor and anyone who wants to attack Bush can just notice all the American blood and money that he pissed away.

[Rolan7]

I learn so much from this thread, I'm really glad it's around.
I just woke up and am feeling sentimental, carry on

I do like that we have at least a couple of Trump supporters, though, echo chambers are less interesting.  But I think we do okay at attacking (aka quoting) Trump instead of attacking his supporters, so it's not our fault there are so few here.

[misko27]

Speaking of Trump supporters, I have a question for ones that aren't named "Folly".

How do *you* guys rationalize Trump's recent comments? Folly has answered this one, but I think anyone supporting Trump should speak to it. I mean hey, BFEL, tell me how you'd feel if a rich and powerful man grabbed your beloved mother by her vagina.

[mainiac]

But yeah, she's fully cooperating.

The opinion of the director of the FBI (who headed the investigation) on obstruction of justice:
"We do not see those things here."

and later on:
"I should add here that we found no evidence that any of the additional work-related e-mails were intentionally deleted in an effort to conceal them"

During this speech he explains that what Hilary did was technically a violation of the law, and that anybody else who had done the same things would have been convicted and punished to the full extent of the law.

Except what he actually said was:
"Although there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case"
and later said:
"You know what would be a double standard? If she were prosecuted for gross negligence."

So it *might* have indeed been "technically a violation of the law" but she is not benefiting from her position.

So why is this still a thing? Because even someone who's blind could see that Crooked Hilary clearly bribed or blackmailed someone to make this whole thing go away. There is absolutely no rational explanation for the FBI to come to the conclusion that they did.

Yeah dude.  Someone who is blind and a complete idiot can see a lot of things.  All you have to do is replace all logical thought with your desperate partisan projections.

[mainiac]

I'm reminded of probably my favorite quote from this series of books:

“The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.
To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.
To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.”
― Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

People who want to rule are ill suited so you are voting for one of the desperate egotists who want to rule despite having nothing to demonstrate their ability to rule?

Also, kudos for you in realizing that a comedian making pithy comments is a sound basis for a system of government.

[Powder Miner]

Trump is an authoritarian strongman type, with such darling similar examples worldwide like Putin, Erdogan, and Duterte... the former of whom Trump has been endorsing to an extent that absolutely boils my blood. And thanks to those examples and what Trump says he wants to do, Trump genuinely scares the hell out of me. He's basically the equivalent of a giant political meteor.

THAT SAID, Clinton might as well be the antichrist for all political purposes. I am a libertarian right sort of fellow, whereas Clinton is pretty much the epitome of the more authoritarian left in modern politics -- she IS the big gubmint boogeyman.

I'm caught between a rock and a Hillary place, and since Clinton could literally turn into Josef Stalin and start gulagging people and she would still win California, where I live, I just say to hell with it, neither gets my vote. Maybe if enough people vote Johnson when the Repubs look at the post mortem, they'll note the number and turn just a bit off of the current authoritarian direction. Even just a little would make me happy.

[Rolepgeek]

So people who are power-hungry should be given power instead?

Also, could well be an independent conclusion they came to and the comedian sums it up well. That'd be the charitable answer.

Plus, 3rd party candidates, this election, actually seem less like they want to rule and more like they want to push specific policy plans. But meh.

[Rolan7]

Clone Douglas Adams/Vampire Terry Pratchett 2020!