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[mainiac]

There are other jobs where you sell affection for money.

And there are thing we can do faster then waiting for the robots.  We can reduce working hours so that people spend less time in small businesses paying other people to cook food and bring it to them and more time at home cooking food.

[RedKing]

Yes and no. If you're working for a little local independent store, that can have more...."connectedness"

Bullshit.  I have worked both the little independent store and the giant office drone lifestyle.  Office drone is VASTLY preferable.  When you are a drone you get to have plans for later in the week beyond "Yup, tomorrow I get up and do the same bullshit".

Fuck small businesses.  They are objectively terrible.  They are horrible for wages and benefits, they are way behind in economic productivity (lowering overall economic output) and they are vastly worse on matters of discrimination.

Whereas I know and recognize and even have friendships with the servers at our local restaurants.

It's cool that you think the servants you rent for an hour every once and a while are your friends because you remember their names.  What a kind and benevolent gentleman of means you are.  /s

You know what? Go fuck yourself. You know nothing of my town or how I conduct myself in my interactions, but you've got the arrogance to assume that you do. Maybe you don't know what it's like because you live in the DC metro area, where many people actually ARE the kind of pretentious jackasses you're talking about, but this is not DC. It's not uncommon to have tableside conversations with waiters here (if things are slow), and on more than one occasion we've been invited to a weekend cookout or backyard party by a server because we're regulars and have that connection.

At least you're objectively outing yourself as a corporatist with your "fuck small business" comment. And likening service jobs to prostitution.

[Max™]

SELL SALT STOCKS, GET US THE FUCK OUT BOYS, THE MARKET JUST DROPPED!

[SalmonGod]

I'm somewhere in-between.  I totally understand what mainiac is saying regarding small businesses being able to offer less tangible benefit to workers, consumers, and the economy.

On the other hand, my impression is small businesses are more likely to treat their workers as individuals rather than numbers on a spreadsheet that happen to have heartbeats, and to make efforts to accommodate their needs as far as work-life balance.

[Rolan7]

Yeah like... holy shit...
I happen to like my megacorp (still appreciate 9 years of reliable employment despite it ending now) and be awkward around service workers...  But that was unexpectedly harsh O_o

I kinda wonder about the efficiency argument.  Big corporations have more room for inefficiency to hide in, but a hierarchy of people whose job it is to remove that inefficiency, so I couldn't really say.  I always figured small businesses were more efficient but partially got there by unreliably making demands of their workers.

As for discrimination, yeah... big businesses have powerful HR departments and obsession with general public image.  Small businesses... no real recourse unless you know the boss (and hope it isn't the boss).

[RedKing]

I'm somewhere in-between.  I totally understand what mainiac is saying regarding small businesses being able to offer less tangible benefit to workers, consumers, and the economy.

On the other hand, local businesses are more likely to support their local community and be responsive to it than a large company that treats the town/city as "Location XYZ". As soon as they can make 5% more profit by relocating somewhere else, they're gone. Or asking for the state/locality to kick in some tax breaks to make it worth their while to stay.

Yes, some small businesses are terrible and discriminatory and exploitive and abusive. But most of them are not. The same ratio cannot be said of large corporations, IMHO.

[TheBiggerFish]

I'm somewhere in-between.  I totally understand what mainiac is saying regarding small businesses being able to offer less tangible benefit to workers, consumers, and the economy.

On the other hand, my impression is small businesses are more likely to treat their workers as individuals rather than numbers on a spreadsheet that happen to have heartbeats, and to make efforts to accommodate their needs as far as work-life balance.

This.  It's not the numbers that are the good thing about small businesses.  It's the intangible things, like 'caring about people' and actually being able to make friends.

I can certainly see the times when you need megacorps.  But small businesses are more human.  With all of their foibles, but human nonetheless.

[mainiac]

Maybe you don't know what it's like because you live in the DC metro area, where many people actually ARE the kind of pretentious jackasses you're talking about, but this is not DC.

Or maybe I do know what it's like because I provide alternative dispute resolution to very poor populations, learn about their lives and am horrified by what I see.

I kinda wonder about the efficiency argument.  Big corporations have more room for inefficiency to hide in, but a hierarchy of people whose job it is to remove that inefficiency, so I couldn't really say.  I always figured small businesses were more efficient but partially got there by unreliably making demands of their workers.

While big businesses can mismanage things, so can small ones.  The difference is that big businesses can achieve economies of scale.

[RedKing]

Our local chocolatier provides me with a hell of a lot more value than Nestle or Hershey. Yes, it's more expensive. It's also a hell of a lot better quality and more inventive (Thai red pepper chocolate bark? Yes please!) and as you say, there's that human connection.

This is what a pure economic analysis misses -- the value of intangibles. And it's what I think Clinton is missing in her analysis of Sanders' supporters. And what Clintonistas fail to grasp about why people might not be enthusiastic about Clinton.

EDIT:

Maybe you don't know what it's like because you live in the DC metro area, where many people actually ARE the kind of pretentious jackasses you're talking about, but this is not DC.

Or maybe I do know what it's like because I provide alternative dispute resolution to very poor populations, learn about their lives and am horrified by what I see.

Pointless non-sequitur.

[mainiac]

Pointless non-sequitur.

You accuse me of judging while knowning nothing, saying "Fuck you" along the way.  I tell you where I'm getting me experience from.  And you say pointless non-sequitur.

[Max™]

Yeah, I got what he was getting at with that, if he was talking about his work with teaching retarded penguins to read it would be a pointless non sequitur.

[mainiac]

teaching retarded penguins to read

But it would be highly interesting and I would definitely want to learn more about anyone who did that.

[WealthyRadish]

Maybe you don't know what it's like because you live in the DC metro area, where many people actually ARE the kind of pretentious jackasses you're talking about, but this is not DC.

Or maybe I do know what it's like because I provide alternative dispute resolution to very poor populations, learn about their lives and am horrified by what I see.

Pointless non-sequitur.

I think mainiac misinterpreted what "it" means here, but I'd also say that the original point (insulting hospitality in the DC area) is the sort of bickering that can make this thread unreadable at times.

I agree with mainiac's point about small business; they seem to me like a feel-good sacred cow that all politicians are seemingly obliged to pander to at every opportunity, when the numbers are contrary to the politician's stated aims. I also think the food service industry in america is degrading (among other things) and should be burned to the ground (or the labor markets and tipping/wage conditions radically altered). But jesus christ man, what was with that ridiculous attack on RedKing? I know he responded in kind, but what is this, the kindergarten playground?

[mainiac]

That one followed by "/s" ?

[RedKing]

Pointless non-sequitur.

You accuse me of judging while knowning nothing, saying "Fuck you" along the way.  I tell you where I'm getting me experience from.  And you say pointless non-sequitur.

Yeah, because I don't see any link between your helping poor people (in the DC area) and you having any standing to dismiss my experience and imply that I'm some privileged upper-class fake who thinks remembering a waiter's name = a relationship with them. So yes, it's a pointless non-sequitur.