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[Helgoland]

Ah, and now you have to choose between ripping on her for the Pepe thing and ripping on her for that comment!

[scriver]

You don't have to be part/-aking in internet culture to see "living in they'd parent's basement" as derogatory, you only have to be part of any culture that views not starting your own life as unprestigous and looks down on people who don't move out of their parents' place. Which about every western society, Italy except, does.

[mainiac]

There is a difference between saying something sucks and says it's derogatory.

[SalmonGod]

I'm not even interpreting her comments as insult or anything.  My comment was based on this part...

Clinton added: "If you’re feeling like you’re consigned to, you know, being a barista, or you know, some other job that doesn’t pay a lot, and doesn’t have some other ladder of opportunity attached to it, then the idea that maybe, just maybe, you could be part of a political revolution is pretty appealing."

"I think we all should be really understanding of that," Clinton said.

In other words, the things we want to fight for are radical to her, but she can understand how getting screwed over would radicalize us.  Basically, she wants to offer us pity.

So... condescending, maybe, but not a direct insult.  Not even sneering as MSH said.  But absolutely confirmation that she does not represent me, and she knows it.

Sort of a side note, but it's also frustrating how her generation can't understand how economic hardship is only maybe 1/3 of our frustration and fear for the future.  She doesn't understand how we're returning to gilded age attitudes towards workers as disposable and non-human, and how being treated this way the majority of our waking hours embitters us.  Her generation worried about how comfortable their retirement would be when they're 70.  Ours gave up on the idea of retiring long ago, and worries whether the planet will still support civilization when we're 70.  She understands one aspect of my generation's experience just enough to pity us, but doesn't understand that there are many, many more reasons we are who we are.

[RedKing]

Meh, for what its worth, I actually feel a bit better about Clinton after those comments came to light. It could have been phrased a whole hell of a lot better, and she's grossly overgeneralizing to imply that all Sanders' supporters were a bunch of broke-ass, pissed-off millenials. But at least she acknowledges that they have a good reason to be pissed off.

She might have just lost the barista vote though. 


EDIT: Although on second glance, it does betray that she's missing a very important distinction -- she thinks the core discontent is with pay and career advancement, which is a very Baby Boomer perspective. In my experience, most people of my generation and younger aren't looking to get rich or get ahead, they're looking to have a job with meaning that pays enough that they don't have to worry about if they can make their bills this month. Being a corporate drone absolutely fails on the first count, and increasingly fails on the second count as well.

[Frumple]

Ex... cept her platform and proposed policies kinda' do show that, SG? Or at the very least that she intends to work towards stuff that'd make things better on those fronts.

I'unno, I don't expect any politician that hasn't recently went through this shit to really grok it, but I'd still say someone advocating for roughly the same stuff is someone that'd work as a representative. S'better than someone that'd claim to and then screw us over, anyway.

[RedKing]

S'better than someone that'd claim to and then screw us over, anyway.

Except there there are a lot of people (myself included) who are afraid that that is exactly what will happen with Clinton.

[mainiac]

A corporate drone has a lot of meaning compared to working service.

[SalmonGod]

EDIT: Although on second glance, it does betray that she's missing a very important distinction -- she thinks the core discontent is with pay and career advancement, which is a very Baby Boomer perspective. In my experience, most people of my generation and younger aren't looking to get rich or get ahead, they're looking to have a job with meaning that pays enough that they don't have to worry about if they can make their bills this month. Being a corporate drone absolutely fails on the first count, and increasingly fails on the second count as well.

At this point in my life, I just want a job where I'm treated with some respect as a human being and acknowledgement that there is and should be more to my life than my job.  I've come to value this more than pay and meaning put together, and I think most people I know my own age would agree.  But I literally don't know a single person near my own age who has this.

S'better than someone that'd claim to and then screw us over, anyway.

I think the reason for the unenthusiastic left is it's hard for us to believe this isn't what's going on, and the main cause of this is we've sensed the attitude behind what we heard in this leak from the beginning.

[Max™]

Gilded*

Also: who ever thought we'd be looking up to Italy for something besides old ass statues¹ and paintings and keeping the market for old dudes with funny hats going?


^{1. In many cases, literally "ass" statues, I'm looking at you, Pygmalion.}

[RedKing]

A corporate drone has a lot of meaning compared to working service.

Yes and no. If you're working for a little local independent store, that can have more...."connectedness" (for lack of a better word) than working for a faceless multinational where it's pretty clear you're just a warm body there to make money for the shareholders. At my company, there is no illusion that any of us are judged based on our merits, but rather on our profit margin. My job is relatively safe because I'm grossly underpaid at my position, but they charge clients the same rate for my services that they would a 20-year veteran PM. So when it comes time for the umpteenth wave of offshoring, the 20-year veteran is the one on the chopping block, not me. That's actually demoralizing as fuck, because it means every pay raise (if I ever get one) is just chipping away at my own job security. And no one really knows what I do on a daily basis except me. I spend much of my workday without seeing another human being.

Whereas I know and recognize and even have friendships with the servers at our local restaurants. They feel like part of the community (helps that we're a small town with an almost embarassing wealth of awesome local grub).

[TheBiggerFish]

@Redking:Yeah.
*sigh*

[Frumple]

I think the reason for the unenthusiastic left is it's hard for us to believe this isn't what's going on, and the main cause of this is we've sensed the attitude behind what we heard in this leak from the beginning.

Eh. It'd be nice if there was a better option, sure. But even disregarding 'is character and other policies, sanders likely managed to fuck us on the primary trail (specifically vis a vis college) and the rest of the current batch are... are. Generation of our politicians being what they are, I don't particularly care about the attitude so long as they're getting shit I like done, or at the least trying to.

Been around older folks enough to know genuine understanding's probably too much to ask for; so long as they're trying and working in our favor regardless of it, it'll do until the decaying blighters die off.

[mainiac]

Yes and no. If you're working for a little local independent store, that can have more...."connectedness"

Bullshit.  I have worked both the little independent store and the giant office drone lifestyle.  Office drone is VASTLY preferable.  When you are a drone you get to have plans for later in the week beyond "Yup, tomorrow I get up and do the same bullshit".

Fuck small businesses.  They are objectively terrible.  They are horrible for wages and benefits, they are way behind in economic productivity (lowering overall economic output) and they are vastly worse on matters of discrimination.

Whereas I know and recognize and even have friendships with the servers at our local restaurants.

It's cool that you think the servants you rent for an hour every once and a while are your friends because you remember their names.  What a kind and benevolent gentleman of means you are.  /s

[PTTG??]

Batista will be one of the last non-automated jobs. Anything dealing with people where the goal is to provide more friendly service than a spigot.