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[BorkBorkGoesTheCode]

I think you all are taking my suggestion far more seriously than it was intended.

However, you're also assuming that the Federal government would vanish overnight, when what I said was "devolve". Meaning a more orderly transition of power, something akin to what happened with USSR->CIS->Russia and a bunch of other new countries.

I would see it as a transition to a weak confederation of all 50 states, which would then transition to regional supragovernments that the states would form and join of their own design. You'd probably see CA, WA and OR form one; NY and the New England states form one, the upper Midwest form one, the South form one (and yes, it would probably be some half-assed attempt to reform the Confederacy), etc.

I've come to believe that democracy has both a minimum and maximum optimal size. Three people doesn't make for a good democracy. Neither does three billion. Honestly, I think even America's ~318 million has surpassed the optimal maximum. If we continue to grow, we're either going to move towards a more authoritarian central government like China, or a hopelessly broken decentralized democracy like India. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say the optimal maximum is 200-250 million, though cultural factors will change that. A heterogenous population is going to have a lower effective max than a homogenous one.

Breaking the US up into smaller, more homogenous chunks potentially means better, more responsive governance for everyone. Not that I expect to see it in my lifetime (unless it's done the quick and ugly way, which I'd rather not see) but I think long-term the US is unsustainable in its current form.

So, to compensate for the failure of the EU, you want t beak up the US?

[RedKing]

I think you all are taking my suggestion far more seriously than it was intended.

However, you're also assuming that the Federal government would vanish overnight, when what I said was "devolve". Meaning a more orderly transition of power, something akin to what happened with USSR->CIS->Russia and a bunch of other new countries.

I would see it as a transition to a weak confederation of all 50 states, which would then transition to regional supragovernments that the states would form and join of their own design. You'd probably see CA, WA and OR form one; NY and the New England states form one, the upper Midwest form one, the South form one (and yes, it would probably be some half-assed attempt to reform the Confederacy), etc.

I've come to believe that democracy has both a minimum and maximum optimal size. Three people doesn't make for a good democracy. Neither does three billion. Honestly, I think even America's ~318 million has surpassed the optimal maximum. If we continue to grow, we're either going to move towards a more authoritarian central government like China, or a hopelessly broken decentralized democracy like India. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say the optimal maximum is 200-250 million, though cultural factors will change that. A heterogenous population is going to have a lower effective max than a homogenous one.

Breaking the US up into smaller, more homogenous chunks potentially means better, more responsive governance for everyone. Not that I expect to see it in my lifetime (unless it's done the quick and ugly way, which I'd rather not see) but I think long-term the US is unsustainable in its current form.

So, to compensate for the failure of the EU, you want t beak up the US?

Seems fair. Plus, yet another unintended consequence of Brexit -- who knew?

[Rolepgeek]

MNCs are already able to exploit tax differences between states. I get the feeling making them separate countries wouldn't help. At all. Whatsoever.

[smjjames]

Trump reverses what he said in the debate and now says he might not accept the result if Clinton wins https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/30/trump-clinton-support-election-winner-debate-interview

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Domestic insurrection is so 2016, like totally.

[Rolan7]

Trump reverses what he said in the debate and now says he might not accept the result if Clinton wins https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/30/trump-clinton-support-election-winner-debate-interview

"He lied with Monica Lewinsky and paid a massive penalty"

I almost wonder if he was going for a pun, there?  Not that it quite works but still.
And of course he refused to talk about the affair he actually, himself had... yup.  Well except "I wasn't president".  I guess arguing that it was fine because he has no leadership experience

As for claiming election rigging and refusing to accept the result, didn't he do the same dang thing with the primary?  Absolutely promise to honor the result, then just back out of that promise due to supposed cheating.

[WealthyRadish]

It'll be a great putsch, really classy. Generals, admirals, these guys love me, veterans too, they all know I'm a great leader, a great commander-in-chief. What are they gonna do?

[smjjames]

Trump reverses what he said in the debate and now says he might not accept the result if Clinton wins https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/30/trump-clinton-support-election-winner-debate-interview

"He lied with Monica Lewinsky and paid a massive penalty"

I almost wonder if he was going for a pun, there?  Not that it quite works but still.
And of course he refused to talk about the affair he actually, himself had... yup.  Well except "I wasn't president".  I guess arguing that it was fine because he has no leadership experience

As for claiming election rigging and refusing to accept the result, didn't he do the same dang thing with the primary?  Absolutely promise to honor the result, then just back out of that promise due to supposed cheating.

That was more 'promising not to bolt and run as an independent'. He really didn't contest any of the primary states he lost. There were a couple contentious spots, but nothing that wouldn't normally come up.  Given how many places are so close, like margin of error close, there very well could be some contested states.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I remember back when we were speculating if Donald Trump would or could split the Republican vote by going indie after he lost the primary, back months ago in those halcyon days when the world still made sense.

But then. 2016.

[smjjames]

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-supporters-audio-leak-228997

"Leaked audio of a conversation between Hillary Clinton and donors during a February fundraising event shows the Democrat nominee describing Bernie Sanders supporters as "children of the Great Recession" who are "living in their parents’ basement.""

Bite thy ass, Hillary.

The dumb remark aside, she seemed to sorta get it, but not all Sanders supporters are that young.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Hillary Clinton is a sneering elitist, news at 11. Heh, I have to appreciate how much of a mirror this is to Mittens' 48% comment.

[Baffler]

Hillary Clinton is a sneering elitist, news at 11. Heh, I have to appreciate how much of a mirror this is to Mittens' 48% comment.

The Romney campaign was essentially dead in the water by that point anyway. I'm curious to see whether or not this actually affects her numbers, though if I was a betting man I'd call it at "no."

[SalmonGod]

That really sums things up perfectly.  Understands my political perspective just enough to feel sorry for it.  Great way to make me feel represented.

[Helgoland]

That 'children of the Great Recession' bit is not far off the mark though. Sanders-style populism is only possible due to the crisis we had.

[Frumple]

The dumb remark aside, she seemed to sorta get it, but not all Sanders supporters are that young.

... consider reading the whole statement in question, smj. She didn't say they were. Some is a qualifier that exists. It denotes a portion smaller than the entirety, and usually smaller than at-most a plurality.

Maybe the tone paints a different picture, but just reading what was said it's... the same thing I've heard come out of the generation in question (and some surrounding it) talking about themselves. Right down to the wording, since "living in their parents basement" is one of the things us general lot use as shorthand for all the shit surrounding many of us having to fall back on family support now that the older generations and vagrancies of economy and whatnot have screwed us into not having as many advantages as they did. Can tell it's going to be fucked out of context and into the circus tentpole of distortion in short order, but if she said something out of line a metric ton of the people she was talking about are about as off