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[Sheb]

She did bring Climate change up during the debate.

Never said she didn't said she's been doing it less and less.

Has she? I mean, if she wanted to pander to CC skeptics and the oil industry, she could just not have done it. Anyone who cares about it will already not vote Trump.

[AbstractTraitorHero]

Well when but the fact that someone can just pull out their cellphone and look up whether someone is bullshiting certainly helps rationality . Though it doesn't help that the media really dosent seem to care about policy and are running it like it's a reality show not a presidential election.

[RedKing]

Even assuming Clinton manages to defeat Trump, Bernie Sanders probably lost democrats a couple Senate seats this year.  Bernie Sanders probably lost democrats ten house seats these years.

Oh, I would love to hear the tortured logic underlying this statement. Next, you can tell me how Sanders is also responsible for the thinning of the ozone layer, male-pattern baldness, and the cancellation of Firefly.

[mainiac]

Oh, I would love to hear the tortured logic underlying this statement. Next, you can tell me how Sanders is also responsible for the thinning of the ozone layer, male-pattern baldness, and the cancellation of Firefly.

Down ticket races suffer a drag from the top of the ticket.  Every time Clinton's numbers go down, so do Senate Democratic candidates.  We dont have as much data on house races but it seems reasonable to suppose the same happens.

It's not logic.  It's empirical observation.

[Frumple]

Even assuming Clinton manages to defeat Trump, Bernie Sanders probably lost democrats a couple Senate seats this year.  Bernie Sanders probably lost democrats ten house seats these years.

Oh, I would love to hear the tortured logic underlying this statement. Next, you can tell me how Sanders is also responsible for the thinning of the ozone layer, male-pattern baldness, and the cancellation of Firefly.

It's... not really tortured? Dude screwed with the DNC et al mid presidential campaign, despite ostensibly being part of it, and that'll probably have down-ballot impact. Agree or disagree whether that's a bad thing (though M's point seems to be that it probably is, so far as progressive legislation and whatnot in the relatively near term goes), but it's hard to argue it ain't a thing.

Now I find it interesting that you even think someone could look like a jackass I've never really thought when I look at people that they look like something I might vaguely like or dislike their hairstyle or maybe think their hairstyle humorous like Trump's ((becuase i thought it was a wig the first time I saw it.))
But I've never really let someone's appearance at least consciously effect my opinion about someone really negatively.I try to see the best in people.

Presentation is a thing, for good or ill. Certain ways of holding yourself and grooming and whatnot can be indicative, to varying degrees, of particular behavioral patterns. The video linked, th'fellow's got that particular style that's notably common among a particular subset of self-righteous jerks. Could just be entertainment persona or whatev', but he definitely gave off the vibe of ranting jackass, just by appearance. And judging from what you an' others have been saying, that's... pretty accurate.

And yeah, you don't necessarily let it effect you negatively (assuming you notice), because individuals est and appearances can be deceiving and all that rot, but if their appearance or whatever gets on your nerves and you ain't gotta' subject yourself to that, why do it? There's usually enough alternate ways to get the message trying to be communicated that you don't have to suffer for it.

[Sheb]

Oh, I would love to hear the tortured logic underlying this statement. Next, you can tell me how Sanders is also responsible for the thinning of the ozone layer, male-pattern baldness, and the cancellation of Firefly.

Down ticket races suffer a drag from the top of the ticket.  Every time Clinton's numbers go down, so do Senate Democratic candidates.  We dont have as much data on house races but it seems reasonable to suppose the same happens.

It's not logic.  It's empirical observation.

I think you're severely overestimating the impact Sanders has on Clinton's numbers.

[Frumple]

It doesn't exactly take much to chip off some congress positions or whatev', though...

[SalmonGod]

On the other hand, he also heightened interest in politics in a lot of people who are normally more apathetic.  So while his effect on Clinton herself may have been negative, he could also be behind a higher voter turnout in general that might balance out whatever drag on the party in other races.

[Reelya]

There's been a fairly steady downward trend on Clinton's favorability numbers since 2012 however. Hard to blame all that on Sanders.

[Frumple]

... uh, yeah, it would be, which is why no one here is doing that.

[mainiac]

I think you're severely overestimating the impact Sanders has on Clinton's numbers.

I think you are severely underestimating the effect that it has when someone fucks with a party from the inside.

If you are inside the party then it no longer is a partisan issue.  Partisan issues defuse controversy.  Look at goddamn trump.  He has been normalized because all the republicans fell in line.  As long as all the republicans fall in line it's he said she said.

Sanders joins a long line of self important senators including Max Baucus and Joe Lieberman who exploit this.  When Max Baucus thought that he could hold the affordable care act hostage the media didn't say "deluded senator wants to be more important".  They said "All republicans and some democrats filibuster bill".  It's called message discipline.  It's the way the world freaking works.  Yes we dont know exactly how it works but it seems like a safe bet that it matters a lot.  Careers are ended over message discipline.

And Sanders didn't just have bad discipline but he did it to a maximum extent.  It was obvious that he had lost by march.  He didn't quit.  He went even more negative.  So now Clinton is spending all her time fighting messages that Bernie fucking Sanders kept in the news which could have died half a year ago.  Clinton could be on the stump in North Carolina and Nevada right now, tying Burr and Heck to Trump.  She isn't.

There's been a fairly steady downward trend on Clinton's favorability numbers since 2012 however. Hard to blame all that on Sanders.

Some decline was to be expected because her numbers were artificially high at the start.  I dont blame Sanders for that part.

[AbstractTraitorHero]

I would not consider the guy a jackass.

[mainiac]

'K

A nice example of what happens when people who aren't Senators have poor message discipline is Joycelyn Elders.

Who some fans made a song about

[sluissa]

There's a reason congress is made up of more than two people.

[PTTG??]

If anything, Sanders makes Hillary look more moderate, and thus more acceptable for republican cross-voters.

I'm forecasting that, if things continue on the current trend (a big if), then the US will reorganize on European lines, with the mainstream conservative party being the democrats, a socialist-liberal party (possibly descended from Jill Stein) and a few extremist parties like a Tea Party nationalist group and a radical left.