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[smjjames]

You didn't just comment about shitpost, you said that ALL information was tainted. Do you really think it's not a fact that DT is a climate change denier?

No he pretty thoroughly denied climate change.
Note: this is one thing even my mom noted he lied on. Which puts her one step above mainiac on the "how far up your chosen candidates backside are you" ladder.
And there's my queue that I'm just being salty and should probably go do something else for a month or so.

He did deny climate change, but right after the debate, http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/trump-climate-change-stance-228771 he seems to have suddenly decided 'oh wait, it's real, but not manmade'. So, it's still denial that Man has any responsibility for the planet and that we can just keep spewing greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere. Read into it as you will I guess.

While it's plausible to argue how much of it is caused by man and how much is caused by nature as there are natural forces which have kicked in, the massive majority of it is being driven by Man.

[AbstractTraitorHero]

There really dosent seem to be a point to really voting for...well any of the current candidates they all seem...all of them kinda really terrible or basically have no chance of winning....wonder what would happen if an overwhelming majority voted for Obama to remain president even though he's served his terms...It'd be intresting perhaps

[Max™]

And ISIS? Would be strange yet funny if they went the litigation route.

Not sure what Mexico would sue over. Maybe Trump for defamation. Or maybe the failed drug war?

and don't forget much of South America which was pretty much our stomping grounds to do as we wished during the Cold War.

Also, I wonder if it would open an additional can of worms (or multiple at that) for other countries to sue other countries besides the US?

As I said earlier, isn't there supposed to be some sort of INTERNATIONAL* court which would take up those cases of grievance? Oh wait, there is, but it's as ineffective as the UN.

*I do know there is an international criminal court that tries warcriminals on warcrimes, but I'm not aware of a more general international court that handles stuff like reparations or stuff like what the 9/11 families want.

Well, the ICJ or World Court is for State level cases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Court_of_Justice

So the comparison would be the US suing Saudi Arabia over 9/11, rather than the families.

Now, cases can be brought before the ICC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court

Though it only came into existence after the Treaty of Rome in 2002, and even if the case were allowed, bringing it before the ICC would involve stating that the government of Saudi Arabia specifically endorsed/enabled/ordered/condoned/perpetrated the attacks and that they are thus guilty of crimes against humanity, which I don't quite think the US is interested in doing.

[AbstractTraitorHero]

Clintons not doing that great becuase she's kinda well pandering to Republicans and other people it seems.... really it seems like she's been abandoning her base really.

[Frumple]

Shit, isp, the DNC actually gave sanders a hell of a lot more support than he probably deserved. They were pretty even handed with a guy that had spent years fairly hostile to the party and then showed up to parasitize on the party's name and do more or less jack all else (well, besides shit on them for the help, by the end of his campaign).

There wasn't terribly much in the way of overt support, sure, but... again. The guy had spent, what, decades? Many years, in any case. In an antagonistic relationship with the party itself. There was zero reason to give the guy any support for them, and quite a few reasons to actively work against him. And they didn't, at least as near as I've noticed anyone able to actually substantiate. They let him use the democratic name in a sodding presidential campaign despite him having spent years doing very little for 'em when he wasn't outright attempting to undermine the party's efforts. Yeah, most of the party threw their weight behind clinton, but it's real bloody obvious why they would.

Clintons not doing that great becuase she's kinda well pandering to Republicans and other people it seems.... really it seems like she's been abandoning her base really.

... can you actually point to anything she's doing that's... well, that? I haven't seen any signs she's abandoning her base, myself. Maybe not bending over backwards for the folks to the left of said base, but she's been pretty consistent for a long damn time on most things, s'far as I'm aware.

I'm still not exactly enthusiastic about 'er myself, but good gods is it becoming increasingly obvious her reputation and whatnot is getting seriously distorted. I mean, hell, I knew that was a thing for a while but goddamn.

[smjjames]

There really dosent seem to be a point to really voting for...well any of the current candidates they all seem...all of them kinda really terrible or basically have no chance of winning....wonder what would happen if an overwhelming majority voted for Obama to remain president even though he's served his terms...It'd be intresting perhaps

Third party candidates really never have a chance at winning anyway, and I'm in the same position as you are. I was going to use either of the two third party candidates as a fallback, but given how terrible they are (Gary Johnson is slightly better, but to me, he's just a republican under a different party name) and how bad the two candidates are overall (with experience alone, Clinton is by far the winner of my vote, but that's without all the lead weighted baggage and other stuff)... it's like I dunno what the hell.

There is a bit of an out for me though (and maybe a bit of a copout too), since Clinton is all but 'absolutely guaranteed' to win California (safe Dem state) and the polls are really close, I may go and vote for her anyway to try and boost her popular vote ever so slightly. Plus I really don't want to vote for Trump.

[smjjames]

Clintons not doing that great becuase she's kinda well pandering to Republicans and other people it seems.... really it seems like she's been abandoning her base really.

... can you actually point to anything she's doing that's... well, that? I haven't seen any signs she's abandoning her base, myself. Maybe not bending over backwards for the folks to the left of said base, but she's been pretty consistent for a long damn time on most things, s'far as I'm aware.

I'm still not exactly enthusiastic about 'er myself, but good gods is it becoming increasingly obvious her reputation and whatnot is getting seriously distorted. I mean, hell, I knew that was a thing for a while but goddamn.

Maybe he's thinking about the general election pivot to center? Though really, she is still pretty left of where she started out anyway.

I too would like to know what AbstractTraitiorHero is talking about with the pandering to republicans.

[AbstractTraitorHero]

Eh I get most of my political stuff from this channel I try to do independent research when I get the time.But due to well life in general it's hard to get the time to do through independent study.
Here Is the YouTube channel I use to get a lot of my news and this is a video of an example of Hillary pandering to the right.
The pivot to center is kinda what I generally mean I suppose if it's a bit unclear due to my lack of political jargon I may come off as harder to understand when talking about these kinda topics I suppose.

[smjjames]

Eh I get most of my political stuff from this channel I try to do independent research when I get the time.But due to well life in general it's hard to get the time to do through independent study.
Here Is the YouTube channel I use to get a lot of my news and this is a video of an example of Hillary pandering to the right.
The pivot to center is kinda what I generally mean I suppose if it's a bit unclear due to my lack of political jargon I may come off as harder to understand when talking about these kinda topics I suppose.

That's called 'reaching across the aisle', she's reaching out to those that don't want to vote Trump and the Mormons really don't like Trump. So, it's only natural to court their vote. She's been doing it for a while actually, ever since the primaries ended, reaching out to republicans that don't want to vote Trump as there will be some that are willing to hold their nose and vote democrat this election year.

[AbstractTraitorHero]

Yeah...but they also... really really hate her and well you shouldn't in my opinion be reaching out for litterally the opposing party for votes basically... Becuase your gonna end up saying some things that are gonna need to be said to get them to join that your base will probably disagree with and her base isent very solid really what Hillary needs to do it seems is solidify her base and try and make herself out to be so much more better then trump cause all Hilary needs to do is show how much better she is then trump really.

[Frumple]

Uh, more than that, if any of y'all would actually look at what was being said related to that mormons of hillary thing... it may be many things, but pandering to the right it isn't. If you want to see some of it from the horse's mouth, ferex. Like, the group's apparently trying to appeal to mormons but they don't exactly appear to be doing it via a pivot conservativeways. More like trying to point out all those ways her current policies mesh with (professed, anyway) mormon sensibilities.

And honestly, that's okay? From what a quick check showed while most mormon folks are republican/conservative voting around a fifth ain't, and somewhere in that same ballpark not entirely committed either way. It may be targeting formerly conservative voting mormons primarily, but that innit all it would be doing. May not be enough to completely win them over or whatever the pie in the sky goal would be, but even performing better (or helping your opponents perform worse) than expected can have positive knock-on effects in other parts of the country.

[smjjames]

Yeah...but they also... really really hate her and well you shouldn't in my opinion be reaching out for litterally the opposing party for votes basically... Becuase your gonna end up saying some things that are gonna need to be said to get them to join that your base will probably disagree with and her base isent very solid really what Hillary needs to do it seems is solidify her base and try and make herself out to be so much more better then trump cause all Hilary needs to do is show how much better she is then trump really.

Then explain all of the republican public figures, strategists, military people, etc, saying they are voting for Clinton.

The thing is that yes, most of them hate Clinton, but most of those hate Trump EVEN MORE than they hate Clinton. So, there are going to be some that are willing to do that, even if just out of principle.

Just have to remember that this ain't your typical election year. In a normal election year, doing that might look like you're being desperate, but all she's doing is giving them an opportunity or perhaps try and convince them to hold their breath and vote Clinton.

[Max™]

Remember that she's not trying to court Trump voters away from him, she's trying to get people who flat out won't vote for him, people who want to vote against him, and so forth.

She's been showing that she's actually suited to hold the position, usually even people who won't vote for her can grudgingly agree about her being qualified, it's just intangible qualities that they take issue with. "People say she seems shady, I can't figure out why, but it definitely seems shady."

[Rolan7]

Eh I get most of my political stuff from this channel I try to do independent research when I get the time.But due to well life in general it's hard to get the time to do through independent study.
Here Is the YouTube channel I use to get a lot of my news and this is a video of an example of Hillary pandering to the right.
The pivot to center is kinda what I generally mean I suppose if it's a bit unclear due to my lack of political jargon I may come off as harder to understand when talking about these kinda topics I suppose.

My brother swears by that show, but...
This is the same guy who spent like 10 minutes straight ranting that Clinton needs to apologize for basically everything she's ever stood for and go HARD progressive, and that's the only way she can possibly win (isn't it so obvious, he rants!), and we should still hate her but it might be conscionable to vote for her.

Ugh, his tirade-mode gets on my nerves...  Sounds like his point is that there's no middle ground, so same deal.  Go full progressive or you're a shitty lying scumbag or whatever.
He's right about a lot of stuff but he sure is ridiculously harsh.  Easy to be loud and extreme when you have no actual responsibility   As if screaming, sarcasm and bile are going to fix the country...

[AbstractTraitorHero]

Yeah...but they also... really really hate her and well you shouldn't in my opinion be reaching out for litterally the opposing party for votes basically... Becuase your gonna end up saying some things that are gonna need to be said to get them to join that your base will probably disagree with and her base isent very solid really what Hillary needs to do it seems is solidify her base and try and make herself out to be so much more better then trump cause all Hilary needs to do is show how much better she is then trump really.

Then explain all of the republican public figures, strategists, military people, etc, saying they are voting for Clinton.

The thing is that yes, most of them hate Clinton, but most of those hate Trump EVEN MORE than they hate Clinton. So, there are going to be some that are willing to do that, even if just out of principle.

Just have to remember that this ain't your typical election year. In a normal election year, doing that might look like you're being desperate, but all she's doing is giving them an opportunity or perhaps try and convince them to hold their breath and vote Clinton.

..... Truly this election year will be remembered as the year of the unusual

Yeah I like the guy I agree he can rant a lot but I believe that he's a good guy and he genuinely cares about the country and people.