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[RedKing]

I saw that the other day. I LOL'd. Stein has become a caricature of a Green. I'm surprised she hasn't labelled herself as the only gluten-free candidate.

Meanwhile, Gary Johnson continues his long, slow descent into whatever the fuck this is.

EDIT:
I mean, deities know I want a 3rd party candidate to vote for. (i've been asking them on a daily basis) But the two major 3rd party candidates in this cycle are just failtastic. The only other major 3rd party available is the Constitution Party (theocracy with a side of trickle-down economics -- fuck that noise).

There's a host of socialist minor 3rd parties (because, in the proud socialist/Marxist tradition, they split into multiple parties every time Steve forgets to bring doughnuts to the meeting and they all start fighting because the Stomachs of the People are going unfilled).

And then there's the truly independent, as in, "I have no campaign staff or supporters, other than possibly immediate family and people I've promised a kegger for if they vote for me" including Evan McMullin, and this guy:


Joseph "Joe Exotic" Maldonado, from Oklahoma
Whose campaign planks include:
-Fixing Social Security (always more popular than the "Breaking Social Security" plank)
-Scrapping Obamacare and modelling us after the British NHS or Canada.
-Pro 2nd Amendment (specifically, he asserts that "It is your constitutional right to bare arms." So no more dress codes banning short sleeves!)
-Pro-choice, but apparently against maternity leave

I could go on, but it's not worth the effort. Honestly, the guy seems to have his heart in more or less the right place, but I imagine most of these views are about as well-developed as a round of political discussion at the local pub.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Being possessed by Fhrree'mareket is starting to take its toll on poor Gary. His frail mortal form cannot withstand the power bursting within much longer.

[smjjames]

I saw that the other day. I LOL'd. Stein has become a caricature of a Green. I'm surprised she hasn't labelled herself as the only gluten-free candidate.

Meanwhile, Gary Johnson continues his long, slow descent into whatever the fuck this is.

Was he having a micro-seizure there or something?

Anyways, @the whole discussion on third parties and Jill Stein and Gary Johnson: *sigh* I probably would have defaulted to green party for protest votes but with both of those third party candidates going stupid, it doesn't seem like I might vote for either of those. I disagree with what maniac said earlier, voting for a third party SHOULDN'T mean that it's a lost vote and that the democrats and republicans would say 'we don't care about you as you voted for an impostor environmentalist', the third parties are supposed to be viable alternatives to the two party system and our FPTP system borks it and this year has just all around shitty candidates from a collective point of view.

[RedKing]

I get what he was trying to say, that he could stand up there and sound like an idiot and still get a bump in the polls, just from Americans realizing that there's another option. But just SAY that, bro! It was just clumsy and weird.

I'm with you -- I would love to vote third-party, especially in this election, and I think it's good for democracy if more and more people vote third-party, and if more and more people register as Independent/Other and break from the Democrat/Republican establishment. But there's just no option I can respect this cycle.

Still haven't decided if I'm abstaining on the Presidential race or not. If NC remains a close race, and the national election also remains close, I don't have a choice. If either NC or the national race looks like it's a done deal, then I'll abstain.

[smjjames]

Still haven't decided if I'm abstaining on the Presidential race or not. If NC remains a close race, and the national election also remains close, I don't have a choice. If either NC or the national race looks like it's a done deal, then I'll abstain.

You should still vote for your local and state based elections though. Clinton seems to have a good lead in NC but the state is supposedly Republican leaning, and the national race looks to be far from a done deal as they're so close nationally that it's turned into a conventionally competitive year.

Unless Trump somehow manages to break through in those polls by election day.

[RedKing]

Still haven't decided if I'm abstaining on the Presidential race or not. If NC remains a close race, and the national election also remains close, I don't have a choice. If either NC or the national race looks like it's a done deal, then I'll abstain.

You should still vote for your local and state based elections though. Clinton seems to have a good lead in NC but the state is supposedly Republican leaning, and the national race looks to be far from a done deal as they're so close nationally that it's turned into a conventionally competitive year.

Unless Trump somehow manages to break through in those polls by election day.

That's why I said "abstaining on the Presidential race". Oh hell yeah, I'm voting to throw our governor out on his ass, and hopefully Richard Burr too. Pretty much hoping to 86 all our Republicans, with the exception of the Ag Secretary, because he's a hoopy frood and has done a solid job.

Oh, and Clinton does not have a lead in NC. Current poll aggregates have the state at Trump +1.8. She did have a lead at one point, but it evaporated.


EDIT: The Onion poignantly captures the insanity of this entire election cycle by this quip on their profile of Gary Johnson:

Chance Of Being Elected:

Roughly where Donald Trump would be if this were a normal election

[MetalSlimeHunt]

What the way this has all gone confirms to me is that the idea that 80% of voters don't care about the specifics of the election and just vote down ticket is totally true. Even Trump's....Trumpness is being normalized down to that 1% of uncertainty on election day.

[Max™]

Oh yeah, that's the other thing I saw besides the spanish ad stuff.

Think it was on politico... and yes, it indeed is, but they were basically explaining why the shit Trump says isn't run ending: most candidates are part of the normal gang of misfits and scoundrels, who for the most part abide by the built up sensibilities regarding things you can say, can but shouldn't say, should but can't say, and shouldn't but do say.

When Hillary or Obama or Romney or Bush or hell even Bernie screw up, the spin machine does the usual thing and pushes it out the window for people to pick through. Since they at most want to cultivate a public image of being an outsider, without actually becoming an outcast on the hill, they go along with the game. Roll your dice, move two spaces forward, whoops, didn't want to land there, go back three spaces and wait your turn again, etc.

Trump managed somehow to turn "skeezy businessman" into "one of us" with "them" being cast as the actual politicians. He says something, turns around and immediately contradicts it, then when the spin machine winds up and is pushing for him to go back and take a penalty by spending an apology and retraction card, he shouts "YAHTZEE" and eats one of the dice.

Everybody who is trying to play by the rules is briefly horrified, and then they turn to everyone else and say "see, he isn't even playing the right game, he shouldn't be here" expecting people to turn their noses up at him, but he goes along with what they are saying, parading the "actual outsider" penalty card around like a medal, then he eats the little pewter shoe and skips off to say something crazy across the country.

[mainiac]

Clinton doesn't have a lead in NC let alone a solid one.

There is nothing wrong with straight tickets. If you want what the party does you vote for it. The parties remain the largest ideological positions.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Now you know that's not what's going on here.  The numbers of the election are being forcefully normalized by the method of our political system. The election is becoming numerically like most others despite most people being in it to vote against a candidate, not for them, and it resembles elections where people are voting for candidates.

The parties aren't the largest ideological positions, they're financial power bases. Most people, perhaps even the overwhelming majority of people, would rather have different leadership. And that's right now, in the environment where we know that's impossible due to the stranglehold. One can only imagine how many who have become cowed and pragmatic would act differently if they knew it might mean something other than Jill Stein's War Against WeeFee.

[RedKing]

Trump managed somehow to turn "skeezy businessman" into "one of us" with "them" being cast as the actual politicians. He says something, turns around and immediately contradicts it, then when the spin machine winds up and is pushing for him to go back and take a penalty by spending an apology and retraction card, he shouts "YAHTZEE" and eats one of the dice.

Everybody who is trying to play by the rules is briefly horrified, and then they turn to everyone else and say "see, he isn't even playing the right game, he shouldn't be here" expecting people to turn their noses up at him, but he goes along with what they are saying, parading the "actual outsider" penalty card around like a medal, then he eats the little pewter shoe and skips off to say something crazy across the country.

This sounds like the best game of Monoparcheesi ever.

[mainiac]

The parties are the largest ideological blocks. Bernie couldn't even get a majority of the left. There is no larger left block then Democrats. To argue otherwise means you are arguing that majorities lose. It's a majoritarian system. It has a lot of flaws but this ain't one of them.

Ffs you guys do know that if this election had been proportional you would still be hoping for a left coalition right? Clintoncrats could always make a rainbow coalition. Berniecrats would only have the greens and clintoncrats to partner with.

[RedKing]

Ffs you guys do know that if this election had been proportional you would still be hoping for a left coalition right? Clintoncrats could always make a rainbow coalition. Berniecrats would only have the greens and clintoncrats to partner with.

You could read that as "Bernie is ideologically pure enough that only the Left would coalition with him" (which I think is false in multiple dimensions) and "Clinton is ideologically a centrist that can ally with corporate interests on the Right".

Which is kind of the reason a lot of Sanders' voters were not enamored of her to begin with.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

9% of America voted in the primary. Representative this is not, as the Pew source clearly demonstrates.

Yeah yeah, Hillary Clinton has donators and eager supporters who lick her feet. We get it Maniac. Majorities do not win in this country, elite blocks win. We don't even assess our majority.

Edit: To put it more succinctly, all the mechanisms of our political and media bodies work hard to exclude anybody from the election who would not be a supporter of The Democrat or The Republican. Even when people get past this, like Trump did, it doesn't really matter because they end up normalized in the same way. Ergo, how Trump is polling like your typical Republican in the typical Post-Democrat electoral cycle versus the typical Democrat. The details are all washed away.

[Rolepgeek]

I would love for Bernie Sanders to form a coalition with certain segments of the Libertarian party.

I would love election reform more, but you know, baby steps. >.>

Also, I can only really defend myself on the Bernie Sanders strawpoll stuffers with this: I was not as active here when that was being reported. And no, bringing it back up after he's already lost is not quite the same thing. I do, in fact, dislike that. But as far as I know, no one here was calling for it, either.

Mandatory voting+Proportional representation+ranked elections...Mmmmmmm