Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Sheb]

Still fairly sure Trump is only rather reckless and spiteful. Himself bigoted? I doubt it highly. He just plays the crowd. Showman, and all that. He's smart, but lacks self-control in the way people of such power often seen to.

On the bright side, America isn't the sole bastion of progress and innovation in the known world, unlike Rome, considering their contact at the time with China.

I dunno, I used to think he was just pretending for the crowd, but he's got that racist grandpa vibe from time to time.

[Loud Whispers]

'Wild rumor'? They've laid all the evidence out, and it seems rather compelling. I particularly enjoyed the part where Stonetear had apparently written an erotic BDSM story where the woman calls the protagonist 'Paul'. As in, Paul Combetta. That part in particular is not the smoking gun, obviously, but it's a rich tapestry.

Sad to know that the FBI's bloodhounds and general dirt-digging can't compete with pol's weaponized autism, though. But it does lead to an entertaining possible future where the intelligence agencies have given up in shame of being outdone, and terrorist attack prevention duties have shifted to an all-shitlord task force who constantly save the nation in between posting rare Pepes and accusing each other of flamboyant homosexuality.

Think tanks are all becoming obsolete
Versus the onward march of drums and neets
Posting rare pepes they do it for free
All they want is normies to FUCK OFF REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Starver]

¿Que?

[mainiac]

Still fairly sure Trump is only rather reckless and spiteful. Himself bigoted? I doubt it highly. He just plays the crowd. Showman, and all that. He's smart, but lacks self-control in the way people of such power often seen to.

He was doing racist shit long before he was going to run for office though.  It cant be a showman if he is putting on a show for nobody.

Late Rome did not look like bastion of progress or inovation.

Ever notice that all the legal and religious terms are in Latin?  There is a reason for that.  Even for centuries after the fall of the Roman empire in the west the Roman traditions lived on.  Latin was the language of scholarship and philosophy.  The Roman empire also lasted in the east until the mid 15th century.  Until it was sacked by the crusades there were able to maintain their civilized traditions and cities like Constantinople, Thessaloniki and Athens were bastions of stability that were much larger and more economically important then places like Rome, Paris or London.

[nuoun]

Any George Carlin fans? (Probably NSFW and bonus trigger warning)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxsQ7jJJcEA

[Loud Whispers]

Ever notice that all the legal and religious terms are in Latin?  There is a reason for that.  Even for centuries after the fall of the Roman empire in the west the Roman traditions lived on.  Latin was the language of scholarship and philosophy.  The Roman empire also lasted in the east until the mid 15th century.  Until it was sacked by the crusades there were able to maintain their civilized traditions and cities like Constantinople, Thessaloniki and Athens were bastions of stability that were much larger and more economically important then places like Rome, Paris or London.

Spoiler: not america (click to show/hide)

East Romans ended up teaching their students in Greek more than Latin, and the Byzantine Empire =/= usage of Latin by the Roman Catholic institutions of medieval Europe
Before the revival and spread of Universities and libraries the clergy were the ones recording information and passing it on to future generations, and they wrote in ecclesiastical latin. It also remained as a lingua franca after the WRE collapsed for some time, I've forgotten the name of him, but I do recall a hilarious anecdote of an England-born Prince who tried speaking to France-born peeps, but they couldn't understand his thick accent so they just spoke in Latin. German rulers and Irish rulers, who had never been ruled by Romans for example, both used Latin as well for these reasons. The Late Roman Empire was not a bastion of progress or innovation, just because "bastion" is much too strong a term to use - their progress was turbulent :P.
Culturally they had theatres, new styles of architecture and warfare, mastery over Meditteranean trade, advanced sanitation comparable with modern sanitation, and Constantinople was certainly a bastion of retaining knowledge with its imperial library housing the collective knowledge of the Roman and Greek civilizations. The Late Romans continually tried to innovate and nowhere is this more clearer than with the Hippodrome and their horse races (greens btfo) and the Hagia Sophia, which when it was built, was an architectural marvel only rivaled by the Pyramids and is still structurally sound to this day despite enduring so many earthquakes. One can only wonder what cuisine they had made, with their traditions and access to spices. Also holy shit, people don't give the Late Romans enough credit for managing to bring silk production to the West

Their wars with the Germanic tribes, the Persians, the rising Caliphate, the Arab Empire, the Bulgarians despite dealing vast territorial losses and causing the Roman Catholic Church to pop up were not crippling to the Late Romans. The Germanic tribes settled or were repelled, the Persians were destroyed by the Caliphate, the Arab Empire fractured and the Balkans sometimes at ease. That is until the Seljuk Turkobants begin
Before the Seljuks arrive the Byzantines (despite their losses of territory), were actually improving educational standards, new art made, ancient texts re-copied, churches built and politically the Empire was closer integrated - producing a stronger state than the much larger Empire it used to be. Then the Seljuks arrive and fuck their shit up in Asia Minor. With the Late Romans losing some of their richest provinces in Asia Minor, the Late Romans entered the next few centuries under almost constant warfare with increasingly dwindling funds, and the Seljuks were under no illusion that the Roman Empire was an unconquerable 1,000 year old Empire. From then onwards the Byzantines enter stagnancy, not for lack of innovative minds, but for lack of funds and lives to spare. By the time the Venetians redirected the 4th Crusade to Constantinople, the Byzantine Emperors had given away their military provisions as gifts and outsourced their maritime defence to Venice, leaving their defences in abysmal condition.
The Roman Empire being a dead man walking, it was fubar'd by a blind 90 year old man and efforts to retake asia minor were abandoned in favour of retaking Constantinople from the Latin Empire. Disaster after disaster, civil war and the unfortunate timing of the hiring of Turkish mercenaries ensures recovery is impossible. On the bright side even in death it shows that the Late Romans could've continued innovating if they had room to breathe, as Greek scholars fleeing to the West sparks the Western renaissance, as wealthy Italian and German princes put the knowledge of the Greeks to practical use

Also as an aside, London and Paris are a bit too anachronistic to be compared to Constantinople in its heyday, a lot of cities were better than them, Constantinople could be said to have been better than Rome, Florence, Venice, Bagdhad e.t.c.
I do wonder if the reason why the Late Romans get such a bad rep as synonymous with stagnancy because a lot of their scholars innovations get credited to the people working with the scholars who translated their works into Arabic or Latin

To quote John and Donald from EB:

Given the obstacles against which the masters of the Roman state struggled, it is altogether remarkable that Roman patriotism was ever more than an empty formula, that cultivated gentlemen from the Pillars of Hercules to the Black Sea were aware that they had “something” in common. That “something” might be defined as the Greco-Roman civic tradition in the widest sense of its institutional, intellectual, and emotional implications. Grateful for the conditions of peace that fostered it, men of wealth and culture dedicated their time and resources to glorifying that tradition through adornment of the cities that exemplified it and through education of the young who they hoped might perpetuate it.

rip in peas

[smjjames]

Ever notice that all the legal and religious terms are in Latin?  There is a reason for that.  Even for centuries after the fall of the Roman empire in the west the Roman traditions lived on.  Latin was the language of scholarship and philosophy.  The Roman empire also lasted in the east until the mid 15th century.  Until it was sacked by the crusades there were able to maintain their civilized traditions and cities like Constantinople, Thessaloniki and Athens were bastions of stability that were much larger and more economically important then places like Rome, Paris or London.

Spoiler: not america (click to show/hide)

East Romans ended up teaching their students in Greek more than Latin, and the Byzantine Empire =/= usage of Latin by the Roman Catholic institutions of medieval Europe
Before the revival and spread of Universities and libraries the clergy were the ones recording information and passing it on to future generations, and they wrote in ecclesiastical latin. It also remained as a lingua franca after the WRE collapsed for some time, I've forgotten the name of him, but I do recall a hilarious anecdote of an England-born Prince who tried speaking to France-born peeps, but they couldn't understand his thick accent so they just spoke in Latin. German rulers and Irish rulers, who had never been ruled by Romans for example, both used Latin as well for these reasons. The Late Roman Empire was not a bastion of progress or innovation, just because "bastion" is much too strong a term to use - their progress was turbulent :P.
Culturally they had theatres, new styles of architecture and warfare, mastery over Meditteranean trade, advanced sanitation comparable with modern sanitation, and Constantinople was certainly a bastion of retaining knowledge with its imperial library housing the collective knowledge of the Roman and Greek civilizations. The Late Romans continually tried to innovate and nowhere is this more clearer than with the Hippodrome and their horse races (greens btfo) and the Hagia Sophia, which when it was built, was an architectural marvel only rivaled by the Pyramids and is still structurally sound to this day despite enduring so many earthquakes. One can only wonder what cuisine they had made, with their traditions and access to spices. Also holy shit, people don't give the Late Romans enough credit for managing to bring silk production to the West

Their wars with the Germanic tribes, the Persians, the rising Caliphate, the Arab Empire, the Bulgarians despite dealing vast territorial losses and causing the Roman Catholic Church to pop up were not crippling to the Late Romans. The Germanic tribes settled or were repelled, the Persians were destroyed by the Caliphate, the Arab Empire fractured and the Balkans sometimes at ease. That is until the Seljuk Turkobants begin
Before the Seljuks arrive the Byzantines (despite their losses of territory), were actually improving educational standards, new art made, ancient texts re-copied, churches built and politically the Empire was closer integrated - producing a stronger state than the much larger Empire it used to be. Then the Seljuks arrive and fuck their shit up in Asia Minor. With the Late Romans losing some of their richest provinces in Asia Minor, the Late Romans entered the next few centuries under almost constant warfare with increasingly dwindling funds, and the Seljuks were under no illusion that the Roman Empire was an unconquerable 1,000 year old Empire. From then onwards the Byzantines enter stagnancy, not for lack of innovative minds, but for lack of funds and lives to spare. By the time the Venetians redirected the 4th Crusade to Constantinople, the Byzantine Emperors had given away their military provisions as gifts and outsourced their maritime defence to Venice, leaving their defences in abysmal condition.
The Roman Empire being a dead man walking, it was fubar'd by a blind 90 year old man and efforts to retake asia minor were abandoned in favour of retaking Constantinople from the Latin Empire. Disaster after disaster, civil war and the unfortunate timing of the hiring of Turkish mercenaries ensures recovery is impossible. On the bright side even in death it shows that the Late Romans could've continued innovating if they had room to breathe, as Greek scholars fleeing to the West sparks the Western renaissance, as wealthy Italian and German princes put the knowledge of the Greeks to practical use

Also as an aside, London and Paris are a bit too anachronistic to be compared to Constantinople in its heyday, a lot of cities were better than them, Constantinople could be said to have been better than Rome, Florence, Venice, Bagdhad e.t.c.
I do wonder if the reason why the Late Romans get such a bad rep as synonymous with stagnancy because a lot of their scholars innovations get credited to the people working with the scholars who translated their works into Arabic or Latin

To quote John and Donald from EB:

Given the obstacles against which the masters of the Roman state struggled, it is altogether remarkable that Roman patriotism was ever more than an empty formula, that cultivated gentlemen from the Pillars of Hercules to the Black Sea were aware that they had “something” in common. That “something” might be defined as the Greco-Roman civic tradition in the widest sense of its institutional, intellectual, and emotional implications. Grateful for the conditions of peace that fostered it, men of wealth and culture dedicated their time and resources to glorifying that tradition through adornment of the cities that exemplified it and through education of the young who they hoped might perpetuate it.

rip in peas

Fun fact: The Romance languages are themselves descended from Latin. Someday, English will itself spawn off it's own major radiative branch in the language tree, and the proccess is already underway. Though globalization slows that down somewhat, or perhaps might even accelerate it locally.

[Loud Whispers]

Globalization may not stop that shit from happening, same way as how bring two people with two different dialects if they don't like each other closer together causes those dialects to become even more pronounced
In a way, English has done that already
The differences between the Anglosphere English is quite small (though as 'quite', shows, meanings have diverged a bit), creole languages though are much more obvious and with American culture and Anglo culture spilling over the world like an amazon drum of lube with the sides torn off shit like that's gonna happen more often

[mainiac]

Any George Carlin fans?

Not me.  He thinks he knows a lot more then he does when in fact he is just a typical uninformed moron.  But people generally mistake cynicism for intelligence so they act like he's smart.  He's not.  He isn't even trying to be smart, he's a comedian.

[Loud Whispers]

Not me.  He thinks he knows a lot more then he does when in fact he is just a typical uninformed moron.  But people generally mistake cynicism for intelligence so they act like he's smart.  He's not.  He isn't even trying to be smart, he's a comedian.

Reminds me of the saying on how you don't need to be a swimmer to know when someone's drowning

All the same, knowing how to spot someone drowning doesn't mean you know how to swim

[smjjames]

Yeah, and besides, it's only been, what, 300 or 400 years since the British started spreading English all over the place and even something written in English 300 years ago is still perfectly readable. Even if the word use and slang is different.

Still, 300 years time is long enough to split American and British english from each other, even if in tiny ways.

Though I was thinking of the amount of time needed to split it into distinct languages. Also, as English is so fond of doing, it's actually hybridizing with other languages too, which is what a Creole language is actually I think.

[mainiac]

Spoiler: Rome (click to show/hide)

Also as an aside, London and Paris are a bit too anachronistic to be compared to Constantinople in its heyday, a lot of cities were better than them, Constantinople could be said to have been better than Rome, Florence, Venice, Bagdhad e.t.c.

I included London and Paris because they were representative of the general state of Christian Europe and they are recognizable names today unlike say Reims.  Both London and Paris were ancient cities located in geographically advantageous locations that were important both before and after.  The contrast of the decline of London and Paris to Athens and Salonika is illustrative IMHO.

Also Constantinople wasn't just a one off thing and I think that's an important point to draw.  The Romans even after they were greatly reduced had multiple major urban centers.  I think that makes them different from Corduba or Bagdad and represents the fact that Roman borders preserved the civic life that was necessary for urban centers to remain.  The percentage of population living in urban areas is often used as a metric for economic prosperity in ancient cultures since you need to have an agricultural surplus to feed the cities.

[smjjames]

Wrong quote attribution there maniac (attributed to me by accident when it was LW), just letting you know.

[mainiac]

Strange.

[PTTG??]

I wonder if Trump gets elected but the democrats sweep the congress, I wonder if they'll turn the SC filibuster around and start blocking everyone trump proposes.