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Author Topic: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0  (Read 1420182 times)

Max™

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #3420 on: August 29, 2016, 06:02:00 pm »

Though I should say "The economy took a nosedive" would have occurred in WW2 as well. It was the after effects on WW2 that caused the economy to flourish. You see the effect on the economy during the recovery, not during the war itself.

Well the war resulted in a peace featuring a peacetime draft and huge weapons expenditure, devastation of several trading partners, the terminal weakening of colonial arrangements that been good for industry, american included and the cold war cutting off trade with a number of nations (the eastern block, China and the Soviet Union itself).  Not really great for business...
Probably why it's the "other means" part of diplomacy, which usually involves trying to arrange things with more benefit, less shooting.

Texas isn't really the "South" though it was on the wrong side of the war (and has had a recent plague of memorial bullshit popping up, way to fuck up guys!) but it's why I am glad the term "Deep South" exists. If it doesn't immediately conjure an image of kudzu choked roadsides and dilpidated buildings, you've never been down here in this part of the country.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I grew up just northwest of one of those kinks at the border of the deep south/greater appalachia regions in Texas, it's why Squidbillies amuses the everloving shit out of me probably.

Speaking of diplomacy by other means and stupid statements: it is alarming how often Trump has said things which suggest he doesn't understand the "by other means" part of that line.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #3421 on: August 29, 2016, 07:11:19 pm »

Nixon was well gud with papers, but got rekt when papers gave way to television campaigning

What if now is the time for meme candidates?

RedKing

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #3422 on: August 29, 2016, 07:34:08 pm »

Shit, if masses of kudzu and abandoned buildings is all it takes, I'm in the heart of Dixie. Despite that map placing me in the Tidewater (wut) near the border of Appalachia (double wut). It's a bit too simplified, especially as regards central Virginia down through to northern Georgia -- neither Deep South nor Appalachia nor Tidewater.


And mainiac, what I was referring to is that I've seen more Confederate flags per square mile in western Maryland than I have anywhere this side of Stone Mountain. Could have something to do with Baltimore being placed under martial law despite the state assembly having voted against secession. Followed by the mayor of Baltimore, the city council, the police commissioner, and the Board of Police being placed under arrest without charges.

The case came before the Supreme Court, where it was ruled an unconstitutional violation of habeas corpus. Whereupon Lincoln and the Army gave no fucks whatsover. When an op-ed was published criticizing Lincoln for this, the author and two of the publishers were also arrested. By September 1861, a third of the Maryland legislature and one of its sitting US Congressmen were also arrested and held without trial.

But please, tell me more of this "right side of history" you were talking about? The end justifies the means, I suppose?
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Reelya

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #3423 on: August 29, 2016, 07:43:44 pm »

@LW: I think you got the reasons wrong there.

Nixon lost the televised debate in 1960 because he'd been hospitalized recently and looked thin and sick, while Kennedy was in good shape. People who heard it on the radio overwhelmingly called it for Nixon, not Kennedy.

Nixon did quite fine on later TV debates, but as the very first TV debate, it set things in the public's mind, and he just happened to be having a shit night due to health reasons. Nixon was a statesman, he was quite used to speaking in public. TV wasn't fundamentally a big stretch, and he became a master of the medium. Scumbag, but effective politician.

Though I should say "The economy took a nosedive" would have occurred in WW2 as well. It was the after effects on WW2 that caused the economy to flourish. You see the effect on the economy during the recovery, not during the war itself.

Sorry, Neo, you should really look up the data before deciding that. The war saw massive spending. During the depression there were stimulus packages, but they were half-hearted things that lacked the sheer scale to get things moving: you need a level of stimulus which turns confidence around, it needs to change economic behavior. During the war there was the political will to engage in massive deficit spending, which helped win the war, but also ended the depression.

Take a look at the graph, and the rate of GDP growth 1940-1944. It rivals the modern rate, but was coming from a far lower base. The GDP almost doubled in the 4 years from 1940-1944. The economic peak came in 1944, then the was a post-war slump. The GDP grew again, but never at relative rates which were quite as impressive as the war effort.

During the war, demand was massively pushed by government. This countered lack of demand by consumers from the depression. Industrial capacity expanded massively. People had jobs, and saved money. After the war, demand fell off. But there was high supply and savings (when governments spend money, someone gets it). This meant low prices, people with money and high supply, which means consumer boom. But it took 10 years after the war for that to happen.

« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 08:12:47 pm by Reelya »
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mainiac

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #3424 on: August 29, 2016, 08:06:24 pm »

But please, tell me more of this "right side of history" you were talking about? The end justifies the means, I suppose?

60,000 enlistments for the Union army vs a third that number for the CSA?

And mainiac, what I was referring to is that I've seen more Confederate flags per square mile in western Maryland than I have anywhere this side of Stone Mountain. Could have something to do with Baltimore being placed under martial law despite the state assembly having voted against secession. Followed by the mayor of Baltimore, the city council, the police commissioner, and the Board of Police being placed under arrest without charges.

Western Maryland was diehard union territory back in the 1860s.  It was eastern maryland (where I live, yay!) that was rebel scum.  The confederate sympathies of appalachia have nothing to do with how they felt back in the day it's something that has changed over the past 150 years.  Just like how West Virginia, East Tennessee, inland Texas and backcountry Alabama and Mississippi were all union strongholds but these days love their stars and bars.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #3425 on: August 29, 2016, 08:24:39 pm »

@LW: I think you got the reasons wrong there.
Nixon lost the televised debate in 1960 because he'd been hospitalized recently and looked thin and sick, while Kennedy was in good shape. People who heard it on the radio overwhelmingly called it for Nixon, not Kennedy.
Nixon did quite fine on later TV debates, but as the very first TV debate, it set things in the public's mind, and he just happened to be having a shit night due to health reasons. Nixon was a statesman, he was quite used to speaking in public. TV wasn't fundamentally a big stretch, and he became a master of the medium. Scumbag, but effective politician.
Maybe, but I don't buy that the healthiest looking politicians always win

Otherwise how did it come to this

But please, tell me more of this "right side of history" you were talking about? The end justifies the means, I suppose?
The victors write history, thus side with the victors and history will praise you

RedKing

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #3426 on: August 29, 2016, 08:26:43 pm »

But please, tell me more of this "right side of history" you were talking about? The end justifies the means, I suppose?

60,000 enlistments for the Union army vs a third that number for the CSA?

Quote
And mainiac, what I was referring to is that I've seen more Confederate flags per square mile in western Maryland than I have anywhere this side of Stone Mountain. Could have something to do with Baltimore being placed under martial law despite the state assembly having voted against secession. Followed by the mayor of Baltimore, the city council, the police commissioner, and the Board of Police being placed under arrest without charges.

Western Maryland was diehard union territory back in the 1860s.  It was eastern maryland (where I live, yay!) that was rebel scum.  The confederate sympathies of appalachia have nothing to do with how they felt back in the day it's something that has changed over the past 150 years.  Just like how West Virginia, East Tennessee, inland Texas and backcountry Alabama and Mississippi were all union strongholds but these days love their stars and bars.
Way to completely miss the point. Bravo.

:slowclap
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 09:05:01 pm by RedKing »
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mainiac

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #3427 on: August 29, 2016, 08:27:15 pm »

*yawn*
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

Egan_BW

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #3428 on: August 29, 2016, 08:29:28 pm »

*snore*
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #3429 on: August 29, 2016, 08:32:49 pm »

*flash*
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Egan_BW

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #3430 on: August 29, 2016, 08:36:10 pm »

*Roar*
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BorkBorkGoesTheCode

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Loud Whispers

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #3432 on: August 29, 2016, 08:36:59 pm »

I would just like to say this high quality sick history discussion has been highly entertaining until shitposting attacked

BorkBorkGoesTheCode

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #3433 on: August 29, 2016, 08:38:09 pm »

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=100379.45225  :D
I would just like to say this high quality sick history discussion has been highly entertaining until shitposting attacked
Word association game thread.
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mainiac

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #3434 on: August 29, 2016, 09:11:24 pm »

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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.
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