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Author Topic: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0  (Read 1392273 times)

BorkBorkGoesTheCode

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #2985 on: August 16, 2016, 01:33:00 am »

I dislike guilt by association.
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Reelya

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #2986 on: August 16, 2016, 02:04:16 am »

Let’s start with Paul Manafort, Trump’s campaign manager.

Manafort has a long history of working as a lobbyist for unsavory foreign leaders, including Zaire’s Mobutu Sese Seko and the Philippines’ Ferdinand Marcos. Most notably, Manafort worked as a political adviser for former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych for years, masterminding his electoral victory in 2010. Yanukovych was a Kremlin stooge, one who (per the New York Times) paid Manafort millions between 2007 and 2012. Around that same time, Manafort also appears to have had links to Russian energy sector interests.

Trump’s foreign policy team, too, appears to have ties to Russia or a pro-Russian slant. Michael Flynn, a Trump adviser and former head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, was rumored to be on Trump’s VP shortlist. Flynn is currently a regular guest on RT, Russia’s English-language propaganda outlet. When he attended RT’s 10th anniversary party, he sat at the head table with Putin himself.

Carter Page, another Trump foreign policy adviser, has served as an adviser for Gazprom, Russia’s state-run energy corporation. As recently as March 2016, he said he owned shares in the company. "Page has defended Russia with relish," Slate’s Franklin Foer writes. "He wrote a column explicitly comparing the Obama administration’s Russia policy to chattel slavery in the American South."

You can see where people get the impression that the Kremlin might wield some direct influence over Trump: Many of his key advisers have business interests that tie back to the Russian state.

Interestingly, so does Trump himself. We can’t be sure exactly how much, as Trump refuses to release his tax returns. But Trump’s own son, Donald Trump Jr., said in 2008 that "Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets."
...
In 2013, Trump found a new Russian partner for a Moscow real estate project, Aras Agalarov, an Azeri-born real estate developer who is sometimes called the "Trump of Russia" for his tendency to emblazon his name on his development projects.

The Agalarovs are wealthy developers who have received several contracts for state-funded construction projects, a sign of their closeness to the Putin government. Shortly after the pageant, Putin awarded the elder Agalarov the "Order of Honor of the Russian Federation," a prestigious designation.\
...
Instead of picking advisers from the anti-Russia neoconservative camp, who dominated GOP foreign policy before Trump, he has drawn some of the most pro-Russia people around. Trump sees Russia as a hot market, and has chosen to get into bed with suspiciously pro-Kremlin figures. He sees Putin as a model leader, not a disturbing authoritarian.

All of this suggests that Trump has thought a fair amount about Russia-related stuff, and come down on the Russian side. Trump’s skepticism about NATO and support for Russia’s intervention in Syria, then, are not incidental parts of his platform. They reflect the candidate’s actual worldview, and likely predict how he would act in office.

... Not to mention Trump supporting Russia's annexation of Ukraine's Crimea region. Sure, if that one Ivanka->Deng->Putin/Abramovich link existed in a vacuum you'd have a good case that it's merely, "guilt by association", but in this case, that's not the main story - it's just another sign of how these right-wing oligarchs are all connected worldwide. And that's a threat to American sovereignty.

Romney directly plugged his family's investment in rip-off private degree mill Full Sail "University" during the 2012 election. But that clearly corrupt action seems positively quaint and charming compared to the types of investment conflicts of interests that the Trumps have.

EDIT: the most charitable analysis I can give is that the Trumps have a massive amount invested in Russia, and saying or doing anything anti-Putin jeopardizes those investments. So it's not so much guilt-by-association as it is a massive conflict of interest, which has lead to Trump attracting to his campaign similarly pro-Russian types, or at the least preventing anyone vocally anti-Putin from being part of his inner circle of advisors. If he can't say/do anything against Putin during the election campaign because of how that would affect his investments (whether he wins or loses), then how is he going to govern, when Putin can effectively cut his economic balls off if he takes a strong stand on Russian aggression?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 05:20:13 am by Reelya »
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Max™

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #2987 on: August 16, 2016, 03:52:55 am »

I dislike guilt by association.
We all do, even Putin, I mean he has to hang out with people who hang out with Putin.
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Ghills

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #2988 on: August 16, 2016, 09:40:04 am »

-snippy snippy-

I... Can you provide sources for this information?  As an avid gun collector who has spent years trying to find factual, moral justification for his hobby (and mostly failed), I would be exceptional interested in actual sources.  Not to insult you or anything, but the vast majority of gun-positive hearsay I've fact-checked ended up being false or misrepresented, despite my biases, so I'm a tad mistrusting of your anecdotes.  :\

Yes, can provide non-wikipedia sources for everything. I'll PM you later today to avoid cluttering this thread any more(also need to dig up some of the links, I'm not at home atm).

Mind you, I dont think that everyone needs or should have a gun either. I have a feeling that especially short guns / handguns carried and in hands of inexperienced people(= most, as many who get a gun in US for self defense never practice using it nor practice other means of self defense) have an overall negative safety/health effect, but I still believe everyone including the weak should have the right and means to defend themselves. My own rifles are for hunting, target shooting and SHTF situations, I dont carry, although carrying isnt legal here either.

I'm not sure why you need moral justification; guns are useful, shooting is fun and many have interesting history or technology. Same goes for, say, knives or swords, vehicles and so forth. As long as you handle them responsibly and dont let them fall in wrong hands, you're one of the good guys.  :)

I'd be interested in sources too, if you don't mind.  There's so much misinformation floating around about guns in Europe vs guns in the US.
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Ghills

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #2989 on: August 16, 2016, 12:53:30 pm »

Just trying to wrap my head around this... I saw a political ad against Clinton, that was trying to portray her as rich and out-of-touch.

Against Trump? Against the dude who declared his candidacy at the bottom of a golden escalator? Seriously?

Trump has managed to sell himself as being a political outsider, working businessman type.  I'm constantly amazed.  Even smart people are falling for it.  I have to wonder if they just aren't cynical enough?

Apparently so long as it's not coming from someone 'official' there's no need for fact-checking.
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I AM POINTY DEATH INCARNATE
Ye know, being an usurper overseer gone mad with power isn't too bad. It's honestly not that different from being a normal overseer.
To summarize:
They do an epic face. If that fails, they beat said object to death with their beard.

PTTG??

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #2990 on: August 17, 2016, 03:58:39 am »

Trump knows he can't win, so he's trying to drive down votes.

He's happy to make people hate Hillary for crimes such as.... uh... for crimes. Two Clinton voters who stay home = one Clinton voter who switches to Trump.
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RedKing

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #2991 on: August 17, 2016, 08:42:05 am »

Bit of a campaign shakeup on Team Trump. He's brought in the head of Breitbart News ("All The News That's Unfit To Print") as Chief Executive (is this a political campaign or a business??).

Paul Manafortovich is still there and his title is unchanged, but it's unclear how this will affect his visibility or responsibilities. My guess? Manafort's Russian ties were becoming a liability, and this is designed to get him out of the public eye.

That said, there does seem to be a shift in campaign discipline. It's Wednesday already, and Trump hasn't said anything totally batshit crazy yet. He's actually been using a teleprompter!
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Reelya

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #2992 on: August 17, 2016, 10:41:08 am »

The news of the shakeup mentions Rick Gates, Manafort's hand picked deputy, so I looked him up. He's also linked to the Ukranian regime that Manafort was involved with. Kind of a no brainer than Manafort has stocked the entire thing with like-minded people.

smjjames

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #2993 on: August 17, 2016, 10:45:36 am »

Bit of a campaign shakeup on Team Trump. He's brought in the head of Breitbart News ("All The News That's Unfit To Print") as Chief Executive (is this a political campaign or a business??).

Paul Manafortovich is still there and his title is unchanged, but it's unclear how this will affect his visibility or responsibilities. My guess? Manafort's Russian ties were becoming a liability, and this is designed to get him out of the public eye.

That said, there does seem to be a shift in campaign discipline. It's Wednesday already, and Trump hasn't said anything totally batshit crazy yet. He's actually been using a teleprompter!

You forgot to mention Roger Ailes as advisor and helping with the debates. He's a political powerhouse and reportedly set Regan straight and helped him win debates.
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Starver

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #2994 on: August 17, 2016, 11:38:44 am »

You forgot to mention Roger Ailes as advisor and helping with the debates. He's a political powerhouse and reportedly set Regan straight and helped him win debates.
Reagan, though, could follow a script.

Known for it, of course, for obvious reasons.

"Trump" is already a synonym for a loud venting of a foul hot air, long before The Donald, and he hasn't done anything to change that.
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PTTG??

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #2995 on: August 17, 2016, 11:54:25 am »

Note: Don't play Enderal as if it's Skyrim.

EDIT: Wrong thread but eh about as relevant as anything else I say.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #2996 on: August 17, 2016, 12:20:00 pm »

Note: Don't play Enderal as if it's Skyrim.

EDIT: Wrong thread but eh about as relevant as anything else I say.
Never have I wanted control over a thread title more than at this moment.
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misko27

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #2997 on: August 17, 2016, 04:13:22 pm »

Trump gets his first classified briefing today, after making sure to tell the media last night that he didn't trust US intelligence, and would be bringing retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn with him for that reason. It will be in the FBI field office in Manhattan, which is an amazingly nondescript building.
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Starver

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #2998 on: August 17, 2016, 04:37:28 pm »

"One of our most important secrets, Mr Trump, is of course the hollowed out inverted pyramid under Mt Rushmore into which we have put the operational unit in charge of concealing the existence of aliens who secretly control the world's oil supplies,  bury fake fossils and create the propoganda pertaining to bringing the entirely faked existence of Belgium to life. You should never talk of this, naturally..."
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Frumple

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #2999 on: August 17, 2016, 06:26:14 pm »

Part of me wonders if trump could actually manage to get security clearance if he wasn't the republican nominee...

Another part of me suddenly finds that russian connection even more explicable than it previously was, after wondering about the above.
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