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[RedKing]

I'm just gonna leave this here.

"Under those eight years before Obama came along, we didn't have any successful radical Islamic terrorist attack in the United States. They all started when (Hillary) Clinton and Obama got into office," Giuliani said Monday in Ohio where Trump delivered a speech on radical Islamic terrorism.

Apparently, in contradiction to The Clash, Rudy CAN fail.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

(Ellipsis intensifies)

[mainiac]

I'm just gonna leave this here.

I know this wasn't your point but that part about "we dont want this war, they do!" is something I would expect the authoritarian villain in an uninspired action movie to say while justifying his war of aggression.

[Akura]

The handgun he was armed with was taken in a burglary in Waukesha in March of this year. The victim of that burglary reported 500 rounds of ammunition were also stolen with the handgun.

Hold on, 500 rounds of ammunition? That sounds like a lot of pistol bullets for a war zone. What was this guy doing sitting on that many bullets? Nevermind, I just looked it up, that's about 10 boxes if it's 9mm. I also just found a site where I can order bullets sent right to my door... via truck of course, not other means.

[PTTG??]

Wow, apparently Rudy forgot about 9/11.

[Reelya]

Gun control advocates say the government will protect you, but that's just a bald-faced lie. When the government just stands down and lets rioters rule the streets, it's a good idea to have a gun around.

Except for the clearly illogical aspect in which if you can get guns then so can the rioters, and armed rioters are harder to control, which probably plays into the "lets rioters rule the streets" problem.

The reality check is that there's a whole world out there, and most places with strict gun laws
have citizens who feel much safer than you guys do in America, so the idea that without guns you'd be fearing for your life constantly, that's pure paranoia and not based in reality.

Seriously, the long term outcome of so many guns is not "keeping the government in check", it's ending up with militarized police in tanks (already happening in the USA), police helicopter gunships and armed checkpoints everywhere.

[Strife26]

Defense of myself and my family is ultimately the responsibility of a trifecta of bastards known as me, myself, and I. Outsourcing it is all fine and good, but that doesn't change the ultimate moral responsibility.

[Reelya]

Sure, but making it easier for the attacker to have deadly weapons can't be helping. In fact you're objectively much more vulnerable because of widespread heavy weaponry. The idea of the lone gunman saving his family from organized home invaders is bullshit.

I'd argue that you have swapped (as a nation) actual safety for this sort of ego thing where you're kings of your little castle in a hostile environment which makes everyone less safe.

[smjjames]

Gun control advocates say the government will protect you, but that's just a bald-faced lie. When the government just stands down and lets rioters rule the streets, it's a good idea to have a gun around.

Except for the clearly illogical aspect in which if you can get guns then so can the rioters, and armed rioters are harder to control, which probably plays into the "lets rioters rule the streets" problem.

The reality check is that there's a whole world out there, and most places with strict gun laws
have citizens who feel much safer than you guys do in America, so the idea that without guns you'd be fearing for your life constantly, that's pure paranoia and not based in reality.

Seriously, the long term outcome of so many guns is not "keeping the government in check", it's ending up with militarized police in tanks (already happening in the USA), police helicopter gunships and armed checkpoints everywhere.

I know you're just exaggerating here, but we don't have 'armed checkpoints everywhere'

[misko27]

For those of you who don't know the context, Rudy Giuliani was mayor of NYC when the twin towers fell, although he was not mayor for long after (Bloomberg became mayor on Jan. 1st, 2002).

[Reelya]

Well a static checkpoint in the modern context wouldn't make much sense, because they're not flexible.

But the tendency exists towards militarization of law enforcement in the USA.

where you consider that TSA wants armed agents at their checkpoints, border control agents shooting and murdering random mexican kids on the other side of the border, and the sheer number of roadside check and police raids on properties that occur. And things like Alabama immigration law which basically required them to ID everyone all the time (if you left the house without papers and were unlucky enough to deal with a police officer, you get automatically put in prison until you can prove who you are). And Trump would likely roll out something like the Alabama laws nationwide. All of those things embedded in a freely-available gun culture encourage the further militarization of the police forces.

The drug problem is clearly part of both of those things too (gun violence and police militarization), but clearly not a major factor. Because drug problems and a "war on drugs" exist in many countries, yet those other countries don't necessarily have a gun violence problem or excessive police militarization associated with their drug problem.

[Rolepgeek]

Defense of myself and my family is ultimately the responsibility of a trifecta of bastards known as me, myself, and I. Outsourcing it is all fine and good, but that doesn't change the ultimate moral responsibility.

Moral responsibility for home defense is good and well right up to the point of gang warfare and homicide, at which point it shifts directions.

Also, did you know that female homicide rates have a close to direct correlation with statewide gun ownership rates?

The guna ain't the problem, anyway. Keep your guns.  It's the registration that's the problem.

There's something like 100,000 selfor property defense displays/used of firearms in the US a year, fromwhat I remember. Under 20% of those have the other party holding a gun, and while confronting someone with a firearm scares them off 2/3 times,shouting or threatening to call the cops works 1/2 the time anyway, and a bat was about as effective for intimidation, if I remember right. And firearms never make these confrontations less deadly.

Meanwhile, there are somewhere around 11,000 firearm-related homicides each year, and more suicides. Guns are a very reliable and fast way to off yourself, and suicide is very impulsive. So is most non-gang related homicide.

Licensing, tracking, and regulation is a lot more effective than just banning guns. And making sure people have a reason to own one. Mind you, hunting, sports shooting, and the like are all legitimate reasons. In the Australian system, self-defense is not.

[smjjames]

http://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-accused-of-flagrant-violations-of-election-law-us-elections-2016-gop/

I wonder why he hasn't been disqualified over this yet? Also, I wonder if Clinton is doing the same.... Nah, she'd have to be desperate to stoop that low, or would she?.....

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Oh, that's hilarious. I've been listening to my mother talk about how Obama and Clinton get donations from foreigners for literally years now, but it turns out beloved Trump was the one all along.

[smjjames]

It doesn't actually say that he got money from foreigners, just that he tried to solicit donations (which is still illegal) from annoyed British and Australian MPs. Or his campaign tried to anyway. But yeah, his campaign ship should have a million holes in it by now and yet is somehow still afloat, barely.

Meanwhile, his campaign manager is being investigated for possibly receiving illict money while being a campaign advisor to Yanukovich. He hasn't actually been charged yet, they're still looking if he actually did or not.