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[Frumple]

Now now m, the sole heuristic being looked at was partisanship, not general discord, or somethin' along those lines. So far that goes it does look like there's been a slow ramp in separation for a fair long while.

Not really sure what folks expect, though. Lot of the points of ideological departure don't really have a metaphorical halfway point these days, or the halfway point was reached years ago and now is what's being fought over. Folks lament over the lack of bipartisanship, but what's the alternative?

[PTTG??]

The problem is we reached a compromise between left and right long ago, and the Republicans keep moving the goalposts. Look at health care. "Obamacare," that soviet socialist communist travesty as the republicans call it, was Mitt Romney's baby until Democrats accepted it and started moving forward. At that point, it went from a perfect marriage of capitalism and social concern to the worst perversion of American society of all time, including the civil war.

So now the Democrats have to fight to protect a Republican system to protect it from Republicans, and the idea of single-payer healthcare is such a radically dangerous idea that the Democrats won't touch it with a ten foot pole.

[misko27]

We should go back to the old days. Vote early, vote often, and vote Tammany Hall! Honest Graft. I'll bet most of you don't know that Tammany was at one point a Nativist organization until it became the biggest supporter and symbol of immigration in the country.

...Now that I think about it, isn't the conservative stereotype of the Democratic Party literally just Tammany Hall? People who let foreign immigrants of a different culture come into the country, make them citizens without giving any shits who they are or how they got here, and drive them to vote in large numbers for payouts and largess (or today, welfare)? Interesting.

Tammany Hall was interesting. Corrupt to a point of insanity, sure (Boss Tweed infamously amassed $200 million dollars from his schemes, in 1877 money), but there is some sympathy for those corrupt devils who stayed in power by remembering the little guy.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

That's how such groups tend to get off the ground. It's a lot like a boil compared to a whole body, it's a small but metastable area.

[Rolepgeek]

Now now m, the sole heuristic being looked at was partisanship, not general discord, or somethin' along those lines. So far that goes it does look like there's been a slow ramp in separation for a fair long while.

Not really sure what folks expect, though. Lot of the points of ideological departure don't really have a metaphorical halfway point these days, or the halfway point was reached years ago and now is what's being fought over. Folks lament over the lack of bipartisanship, but what's the alternative?

Well that's the thing. I think the social unrest mainiac is bringing up is what fed into and caused this sort of partisanship, albeit in a delayed manner. The issues being fought in Congress today are often the ones that were protested over in that previous 'generation'. Not always, but most of the time, and if you can't (or won't) compromise on those, that establishes a pattern of behavior. Not sure what needs to happen to get past it, either.

[mainiac]

It seems to me that the partisanship is actually a less intense version of the same conflict but more organized.

[Rolepgeek]

It seems to me that the partisanship is actually a less intense version of the same conflict but more organized.

Probably, but it's re-bled into every facet of everyday life it seems like, sometimes. It seems like politics is the primary social activity now. Maybe that's a good thing for democracy, but when you also don't socialize voluntarily with people who disagree with you, it creates this situation of continually heightening intensity on and off the congress floor.

[mainiac]

Probably, but it's re-bled into every facet of everyday life it seems like, sometimes.

It is interesting to note that social liberalism/conservativism has become a much better predictor of economic liberalism/conservativism and vice versa compared to in the past.

It seems like politics is the primary social activity now.

Is that your experience?  It's not mine.  Maybe it's just because I'm so shy about saying things that might offend people.

[Frumple]

I... don't actually hear politics spoken of much in public, generally. It happens, but the sentiment tends to be that it's not a thing for polite company, and it's rather common for conversations to be rather pointedly redirected when the subject comes up.

There's, uh. Also generally pretty explicit warnings to not talk politics at risk of job security in a lot of businesses, among things of similar nature. Primary social activities still seem to mostly be sports (particularly if you include hunting and fishing and whatnot in that category), non-news entertainment media, and booze. And I guess church. Not so much religion, mind, but definitely church.

[Rolepgeek]

Maybe it's just my experience, then. Just seems like most people aren't friends with anyone who doesn"t share their views.

Probably it's because I'm terrible at a lot of social stuff but enjoy discussion. :/

[Frumple]

No, no, that's fairly true. It's just somewhat less likely for two folks of separate political ideology to have too much in common in other areas. It still happens, but usually if two people disagree too much on political positions they're going to disagree on a lot of other things and probably not be all that friendly. Far from impossible, but less likely than two folks that are aligned similarly.

S'fairly often for disparate folks that do get along have an either tacit or very explicit agreement to not talk politics.

Still, beyond all that most folks just don't really spend much time on political subjects. It's definitely not a primary activity -- secondary or tertiary at best, for most people. You get occasional discussions or whatnot, but interactions almost always are a lot more focused on any number of other things.

[nenjin]

I dunno. I'm at least casual friends with a good chunk of people who don't share my views. Hardly any of them, in fact. It helps when you don't talk about you're political differences. We've kinda learned in order to keep a good working relationship, we avoid topics of politics and religion. I'd prefer a dialog about it but I'm not looking to fight with these people. As it is we try to come to appreciate each other for our other, individual qualities.

For example at dinner last night, I basically spoke to a group of 40 to 60 year old Conservative Republican Texans about weed, weed consumables, scotchguarding, whippits and other things kids do. Me taking a trip to Colorado soon and partaking of the new laws there is what started the conversation.

Most of them have never been high or even tried to get high. But they asked me questions like "Are there different kinds? Do they make you feel different?" Etc and so forth. I was sort of an emissary for being a pothead, and given that we have like 4 years of history together, they actually listened to me instead of prejudging me. Without that basic human connection coming first, it's pretty damn hard to talk about anything meaningful without it tripping over ideological differences. At the end of the day it changes nothing but it gives me a little hope that, short of whole-heartedly voting for terrible shit and utterly terrible people, that social life isn't constantly beholden to politics. In truth I'd love to know where a lot of these people who were Pro Trump 6 months ago are now in their feelings....but none of them want to get into it.

[Frumple]

Eh. Depends on what you call friend, I guess. I'd call a number of folks around here relatively positive acquaintances (and a notable amount that I have a decent working relationship with) but friends not so much. Casual friends, maybe, but I wouldn't trust 'em one bit with any amount of truth regarding ideological inclinations. People I can be around without feeling a strong compulsion to stab but not someone I'd particularly want to spend the day with.

[nenjin]

Well it helps that I spend 10 to 14 hours a day with some of these people in the back of a Ryder truck. You learn pretty damn quick to find a common ground or that shit don't work out.

And I guess I have changed them a little. At least they do me the courtesy of not dropping N-bombs around me anymore.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

The only hardcore conservatives I know who I would trust not to kill me for a discount Big Mac are my family, and even then only my immediate family.

One of my grandfather's insistence upon frequent and varied racism in public is one such exception.

The people politically furthest from me I put any stock in at all are actually SJW-types, as much as it fills me with anxiety to recognize that.