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[PTTG??]

Yeah, I don't know.

But we need to do something. It all comes back to deep-seated malfunction in the party process, and the country is suffering for it.

[Flying Dice]

I've said it before, I'll say it again, it's party polarization at the heart of it. The last time the parties were this distinct from each other was the brink of the Civil War.

[mainiac]

But we need to do something. It all comes back to deep-seated malfunction in the party process, and the country is suffering for it.

Or just maybe you are coming of age and have absolutely no sense of perspective.

Or maybe you are an affluent white male and this is an election which is really good for a lot of people but the white men finally are taking a back seat after 114 turns sitting shotgun.

This is a really good election if you care about healthcare for poor people in conservative states.  This is a really good election if you care about supreme court justices that will take another crack at citizens united.  This is a really good election if you care about education for the poor.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, it's party polarization at the heart of it. The last time the parties were this distinct from each other was the brink of the Civil War.

The last time the parties were this distinct from each other was 2014.

[smjjames]

Yeah, I don't know.

But we need to do something. It all comes back to deep-seated malfunction in the party process, and the country is suffering for it.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, it's party polarization at the heart of it. The last time the parties were this distinct from each other was the brink of the Civil War.

Theres also the fact that the republicans insist on trying to fight Obama on everything and not actually govern, and I have a feeling that they'll do the same thing with Hillary, so, things are just going to get worse for them.

Trump added a bunch of women to his team, and they're still mostly CEOs and bankers and stuff like that, and one former Lt. Governor. http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/trump-economic-advisers-revised-list-226912

[mainiac]

Theres also the fact that the republicans insist on trying to fight Obama on everything and not actually govern, and I have a feeling that they'll do the same thing with Hillary, so, things are just going to get worse for them.

The republicans are probably going to lose the Senate.  This means that at minimum the democrats will be able to make appointments without pointless controversy all the time.  Not just for the Supreme Court either.

The house republicans could refuse to pass a budget and provoke more government shutdowns but that game is so freaking played out at this point.  Clinton isn't exactly the kind to cave in to antagonism...

[smjjames]

Plus Clinton is likely to be able to strong arm the republicans more easily.

Anyhow, I wiki'd those new advisors and some are from free-market think tanks, a few investment and hedge fund companies, and one is co-owner and founder of a shipping supply company. Theres probably only two that could be considered middle class, or at least middle class/working class beginnings.

Surprise surprise, most of them are donors.

I guess Trump is banking on his supporters being either too blind or too distracted by Hillary to notice that he's behaving exactly like every other politician.

[Rolepgeek]

I've said it before, I'll say it again, it's party polarization at the heart of it. The last time the parties were this distinct from each other was the brink of the Civil War.

The last time the parties were this distinct from each other was 2014.

Really? 2014 had people assaulting each other for this? This isn't a continuation and worsening of 2014's politics?

It means this period, mainiac, not this specific year. Flying Dice can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's what they meant.

[Frumple]

... 2014 definitely had some assaults related to political differences, yes.

Honestly, I'm trying to think of a potus election in the last couple of decades that didn't have at least some violence involved. Can't remember if there was a year where something like that didn't hit headlines a few times...

E: And it looks like the last time we had a congressional fistfight was over a century ago. Part of me wonders if the perception of increased violence and partisanship isn't more of that ruddy news saturation effect being its usual jackass self. Almost certainly is in part, at the least. Probably be interesting to see numbers on POTUS cycle political violence, but I'm currently entirely too exhausted to go looking and don't really care that much t'boot so eh.

[mainiac]

It means this period, mainiac, not this specific year. Flying Dice can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's what they meant.

Define period then.  Because if you are talking ugly periods my mind goes to the Vietnam war.  Race riots, convention riots, political assasination of MLK and RFK... actually wait that's just all in one year.

[Strife26]

Aaaaaaaand you speak of revolution, like it's someplace that you've been, you've been a long time gone, good t'see you, my old friend.


Turnpike Troubadours- 1968
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RelbbYG7H8A

[Culise]

... 2014 definitely had some assaults related to political differences, yes.

Honestly, I'm trying to think of a potus election in the last couple of decades that didn't have at least some violence involved. Can't remember if there was a year where something like that didn't hit headlines a few times...

E: And it looks like the last time we had a congressional fistfight was over a century ago. Part of me wonders if the perception of increased violence and partisanship isn't more of that ruddy news saturation effect being its usual jackass self. Almost certainly is in part, at the least. Probably be interesting to see numbers on POTUS cycle political violence, but I'm currently entirely too exhausted to go looking and don't really care that much t'boot so eh.

Not to mention changing standards regarding the place of violence in the process.  Back in the day, if it came to fisticuffs (or even outright murder) at the election booths, why, that was just part and parcel of the political process.  Secret votes? Piffle. A real man (and naturally, only men of wealth and distinction) had no need to conceal their voting record. Participation in the political process? Definitely something encouraged, if you remember the immortal words that epitomized Tammany Hall: "Vote early, vote often."

[Rolepgeek]

It means this period, mainiac, not this specific year. Flying Dice can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's what they meant.

Define period then.  Because if you are talking ugly periods my mind goes to the Vietnam war.  Race riots, convention riots, political assasination of MLK and RFK... actually wait that's just all in one year.

This political period of partisanship? Probably starting small with Reagan's scandals and hitting it's stride right around Bill's scandals/2000 elections. Getting worse every election season, just about.

I'm not saying it was never this bad before. I'm saying it hasn't been this bad in a very long time. You think it was like this in the 50s, 60s, 70s, with people hoping to vote in the candidate they dislike to burn the whole thing to the ground? As a widespread sentiment, not just an incident here or there? With a candidate inciting violence during rallies? Congress is more split than ever before, objectively speaking. Least productive in terms of legislation ever, the last two congresses, iirc.

[Strife26]

Well, we literally had leftist militant groups running around the country, conducting bombings, and shooting people with cyanide bullets back during the Vietnam war, so yeah, I'd totally say that it's been like this before.

[Flying Dice]

It means this period, mainiac, not this specific year. Flying Dice can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's what they meant.

Define period then.  Because if you are talking ugly periods my mind goes to the Vietnam war.  Race riots, convention riots, political assasination of MLK and RFK... actually wait that's just all in one year.

This political period of partisanship? Probably starting small with Reagan's scandals and hitting it's stride right around Bill's scandals/2000 elections. Getting worse every election season, just about.

I'm not saying it was never this bad before. I'm saying it hasn't been this bad in a very long time. You think it was like this in the 50s, 60s, 70s, with people hoping to vote in the candidate they dislike to burn the whole thing to the ground? As a widespread sentiment, not just an incident here or there? With a candidate inciting violence during rallies? Congress is more split than ever before, objectively speaking. Least productive in terms of legislation ever, the last two congresses, iirc.

That's exactly it. This state of affairs has been a few decades in the making. If you think that political climates change annually like the leaves, with no connection to the past or future, you're delusional.

I mean, arguably it's cyclical. Things were pretty thoroughly divided back during the first few decades after the Revolution, but I was specifically referencing the last time things were this bad. Yes, "time", as in "period". Not "time" as in "literally just things as they are right now as I type this".

Well, we literally had leftist militant groups running around the country, conducting bombings, and shooting people with cyanide bullets back during the Vietnam war, so yeah, I'd totally say that it's been like this before.

We're not talking about social unrest, though, we're talking about party polarization and the strength of party alignment in Congressional voting. The '70s was the tail end of a period of relatively conglomerated political alignments as far as the government was concerned.

[mainiac]

This political period of partisanship? Probably starting small with Reagan's scandals and hitting it's stride right around Bill's scandals/2000 elections. Getting worse every election season, just about.

Okay so you are saying the past 35 years, roughly speaking.  How about we compare them to the 35 years before?  1945 to 1980, let's just round it off and say "after WWII but before Reagan."

Now the political life of post-WWII started off great of course when The troops came home to a grateful nation.  We are nostalgic for how simpler things were back then.  We remember it for kids getting a proper education the first time.  People dared to dream, which certainly left it's mark on places like chicago kansas city and washington dc.  Of course Chicago enjoyed it's democracy so much they decided to give it another go a few months later.  And of course we all know what happened next...  Oh and I completely forgot about Tonkin gulf and Vietnam so here, have a bonus picture of american university life.

Saying that our politics is ugly right now is like saying that democracy isn't a very good form of government.  It only looks bad if you dont compare it to anything else...