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[sluissa]

The controversy continues in its fourth day. Many pundits are beginning to ask a question that surely has not been asked for a while: did Trump finally go too far? Did he say something that shouldn't be said? Or at least, keep saying it? Condemnation from every angle for attacking a hero is not good optics 98 days from the election.

And of course, the part of it that keeps this going is that while Trump's CAMPAIGN realizes and understands whats going on, and is doing the whole "Humayun Khan was a true american hero" thing, while Trump himself continues his personal war against the Khans. Another candidate would look at the situation, realize "this is not a war I can win", and back off, but Trump is so determined to win ALL of his wars that he refuses. He just can't relent. And as long as he can't relent he adds fuel to the fire, and the Khans continue lambasting him in interviews. Hell even the Khans, on their own, could not keep up the fight if Trump did not want to. Just by redirecting his attention Trump could ensure that, eventually, they wouldstop being talked about, but he just, hasn't. So self-destructive.

Except if he did just let it slide away, Clinton would be the one continuing to bring this up at every opportunity. Trump knows that as bad as it is right now, if there is a way to do so, he has to squash this an win. A win, of any sort, would nullify all the bad political attention and make it harder to Clinton to bring it up again. Even the final word in a stalemate, if a lull happens in the fighting, Trump can come back with a "Oh, you're bringing that up again!? I thought that was settled."

Trump is doing what's best for Trump, as crazy as it sounds.


Vote your conscience, a vote for Stein or Johnson makes sense.

[smjjames]

The controversy continues in its fourth day. Many pundits are beginning to ask a question that surely has not been asked for a while: did Trump finally go too far? Did he say something that shouldn't be said? Or at least, keep saying it? Condemnation from every angle for attacking a hero is not good optics 98 days from the election.

And of course, the part of it that keeps this going is that while Trump's CAMPAIGN realizes and understands whats going on, and is doing the whole "Humayun Khan was a true american hero" thing, while Trump himself continues his personal war against the Khans. Another candidate would look at the situation, realize "this is not a war I can win", and back off, but Trump is so determined to win ALL of his wars that he refuses. He just can't relent. And as long as he can't relent he adds fuel to the fire, and the Khans continue lambasting him in interviews. Hell even the Khans, on their own, could not keep up the fight if Trump did not want to. Just by redirecting his attention Trump could ensure that, eventually, they wouldstop being talked about, but he just, hasn't. So self-destructive.

Yeah, it's like 'Why is he even picking this fight?' He could have stopped after his first response, but nope, he continued on even though the Khans really didn't provoke him (no further than any of the talking heads 'provoke' him) any further.

And this is the kind of thing that I meant when I asked "can you imagine your leaders picking a fight with other leaders the way Trump does?" I'm aware of the whole 'fistfight breaks out in X's parliament' thing, but that's different from what I meant, which is the way that Trump does it and sometimes seemingly at random. Yes, twitter storms are more a product of the primaries, but he doesn't seem to choose his fights very well.

[smjjames]

A vote for a third party is a reasonably noticeable poke to whichever main party is closer that they need to redefine their bases.

Yes, for instance if you vote Green then you are telling the democrats they need to move right because they cant expect to find the votes on the left.

I thought Green party was to the left of the Democrats?

[Reelya]

He's got it backwards. His idea is that a far-left option will push the center-left party to the right, because they can't compete for far-left votes. But that is ignoring the fact that they also have competition for the center-right vote. It's just not a good strategy, not least of which is that it gives a far-left party a foothold, meaning the center-left party is now fighting on two fronts instead of one.

Since the theory is that they're "avoiding competition" then that effect should be even more pronounced in primary elections, when there's no counterweight of a competing party on the other side. e.g. Clinton was faced with the perception of a far-left Sanders. If mainiac's theory was correct then she should logically have been pushed to the right, not the left. If that didn't happen when there was no competition to the right whatsoever, then how plausible is it that things would work like that in a general election, when you already have a strong center-right party competing for votes?

[RedKing]

Shh....don't screw up his talking points, he'll get cranky.

That said, I just can't back Stein. Not only is she courting the anti-vaxxer vote, but she apparently thinks wi-fi in schools is bad because it "messes with kids' brains".

So....yeah. it's looking increasingly like Clinton by fiat, just because everyone else running is so intolerably out of touch with reality.

[mainiac]

If mainiac's theory was correct then she should logically have been pushed to the right, not the left.

That was a primary, not a third party.  I was describing the effect of third parties, not primary challenges.

It's simple median vote theory.  If the voters on the left are indicating they wont contribute to your majority, you need those votes somewhere else.

[Max™]

Caesar is pronounced see-za in English tho

Just like your name is pronounced Or-an-gay Wuuzarudo in Japan.

The soft C comes from French however, which should give some proper French-hating Americans pause for thought.

Didn't know it was from France, but yeah, that's wrong so it's actually pronounced like the bun and german leaderdude.

[smjjames]

Shh....don't screw up his talking points, he'll get cranky.

That said, I just can't back Stein. Not only is she courting the anti-vaxxer vote, but she apparently thinks wi-fi in schools is bad because it "messes with kids' brains".

So....yeah. it's looking increasingly like Clinton by fiat, just because everyone else running is so intolerably out of touch with reality.

Really? I had read something about an accussation of antivaxxers, but the comment on wi-fi? Seriously? About the only reason I voted for Green is because 'Yay environmentalism!' and because I know they have absolutely no chance of winning, sort of a protest vote.

How's Gary Johnson? Though I think you (or someone) said that you/they didn't like something about him, budget plans maybe.

[mainiac]

I believe the wifi was a recent thing.

Man how crazy would it be if the american political class was being poisoned with something insanity inducing.  Like that theory about how lead pipes drove the roman emperors insane.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Stein has been cavorting with the pseudoscience crowd for years. Anti-GMO, anti-vaxxer, alternative medicine, all sorts of woo bullshit like this. It's only a matter of time until the crystal healing and alien worship starts.

[RedKing]

I added a link to the story on the wi-fi thing in my comment.

Johnson seems like a decent guy. But his fiscal platform is red meat libertarian stuff. So half of it is great, like "legalize marijuana" and "same-sex marriage is fine" and "abortion should be legal". But then it's counterbalanced with the typical Randian stuff like abolishing the IRS and welfare.

To be fair, a number of Libertarians have claimed that Johnson isn't really Libertarian so much as a moderate Republican wearing the Libertarian label. And they point to his policy decisions as Governor of New Mexico, when he was still a Republican. Best guess seems to be that he'd be a status quo sort of guy -- wouldn't really make any big changes, although he's definitely not a fan of Obamacare and might push some to get that repealed or heavily reformed.

EDIT: One thing in Johnson's favor (imho) is that he's actually talking about the notion of a universal basic income. You might quibble with how he's constructing the idea, but the fact that he's actually proposing it is a pretty damn good thing.

EDIT #2: As a caveat to the "abortion should be legal" thing, he actually thinks Roe v. Wade should be overturned and the issue left to states. He doesn't support a Federal ban on it, but he's totes ok with states banning it. Which isn't cool, imho.

[mainiac]

Isn't Johnson facing a strong primary challenge? 

[RedKing]

Isn't Johnson facing a strong primary challenge? 

Nah. And their primary is over. John McAfee and Austin Petersen had some support, but Johnson wiped the floor with them in delegate totals. Petersen, in particular, gained a lot of traction in May from hardcore Libertarians who view Johnson as a Johnny-come-lately, but it was too little, too late and too little name recognition.

[smjjames]

Isn't Johnson facing a strong primary challenge? 

Nah. And their primary is over. John McAfee and Austin Petersen had some support, but Johnson wiped the floor with them in delegate totals. Petersen, in particular, gained a lot of traction in May from hardcore Libertarians who view Johnson as a Johnny-come-lately, but it was too little, too late and too little name recognition.

And John McAfee is well... John McAfee, forever tainted by his McAfee Antivirus.

Anyways, I wonder why the greens can't find a decent candidate. Jill Stein sounds like a hippie that never left the 60's.

[Frumple]

And John McAfee is well... John McAfee, forever tainted by his McAfee Virus.

FTFY >_>