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[mainiac]

No, I dont know which post he is talking about.  It is not clear from context.

[RedKing]

Coming from Maniac though, it did sound somewhat sarcastic.

At this point, I think anything he says is going to be taken in a negative light by a lot of people, which is unfortunate. My initial reaction was to take it at face value until I re-read it a few times. Because it does frankly sound like something I'd expect him to say.

It's like...when all you have is a hammer, and everything looks like a nail, people see you coming and go "oh shit here comes Hammer Guy, go hide all the nails".

[martinuzz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo

[mainiac]

You guys do know this isn't the first time I've done this bit, right?

[Wolfhunter107]

You guys do know this isn't the first time I've done this bit, right?

It isn't?

[mainiac]

Taking some bullshit edgelord nonsense and turning it 180 degrees?  No I've done this like once a week or so in every thread up until this one.

[Rolan7]

I did notice when you played "I know you are but what am I?" with *my* post.  Harder to notice or care when it's someone else's, though.  When you get in a mood I honestly just start skimming.

[Strife26]

I feel like, as a general rule, there's so much salt and sarcasm in these threads, it's frequently difficult for us to do any decent talking.

[mainiac]

What, you think there is a sarcasm overload?  In this thread?

[RedKing]

Anyways, in news actually having to do with American politics:


Trump is currently narrowly edging out Clinton in a number of national polls.

Yes, I know....polls this early, blah blah blah. But people said the same thing when Trump started showing early strength in the GOP primary too.
That said, it'll be interesting to see if Hillary gets any kind of post-convention bump.

Even more interesting is how the introduction of Gary Johnson and Jill Stein affect the numbers.

Currently there's only two recent polls that asked a 4-person race and a 2-person race, and one (CBS News) that did a 3-person and a 2-person.


CBS News:
Trump/Clinton: Trump 44, Clinton 43 (Trump +1)
Trump/Clinton/Johnson: Trump 40, Clinton 39, Johnson 12 (Trump +1)

Johnson appears to peel votes evenly from both sides (-4% to each).

CNN/ORC:
Trump/Clinton: Trump 48, Clinton 45 (Trump +3)
Trump/Clinton/Johnson/Stein: Trump 44, Clinton 39, Johnson 9, Stein 3 (Trump +5)

Here, Johnson/Stein appear to peel a bit more from Clinton. Could be that Johnson is still peeling about evenly (4-5% from each), while Stein is peeling entirely from Clinton.

Economist/YouGov:
Trump/Clinton: Clinton 47, Trump 42 (Clinton +5)
Trump/Clinton/Johnson/Stein: Clinton 40, Trump 38, Johnson 5, Stein 3 (Clinton +2)

Similar effect -- Clinton loses 7 points in the 4-way, while Trump loses only 4. Interesting that the number of Undecided or Other voters actually increased when the question is opened up to a larger field (goes from 11% to 14%).


Bottom line (and this is an admittedly small sample size) is that Team Clinton has a quandary. Johnson has a bigger effect than Stein, but it's a relatively balanced effect. Stein is siphoning votes pretty much purely from Clinton (which makes sense). Which one is more cost-effective to counter? Or do they ignore both and just try to hammer Trump, even knowing that the more you attack him, the more his core support hardens?

[mainiac]

Yes, I know....polls this early, blah blah blah. But people said the same thing when Trump started showing early strength in the GOP primary too.

I'm telling ya man, we are fucked.  Start stockpiling ammo.

[SalmonGod]

Ok since it's been pointed out, I can see the satire.  I should have known, since mainiac presents almost everything as irony/sarcasm/snark anyway, and that was way too straightforward.

Like I said, I haven't been reading this thread too much, and didn't fully read the posts prior to gain context.  I've just been skimming through occassionally to see if there's anything interesting going on that I should read more into.  The media is shit, so I tend to stay informed by paying attention to what people I respect are talking about (and I respect Bay12/this thread) as an indicator of what I should be looking up.

So yeah, it was satire.  But if it makes you want to say "fucking really" when I talk this way about independents, maybe you should reflect a little about the way people talk about republicans and democrats.

But my general sentiment still stands. 

Yeah, independents can get intolerant towards republicans and democrats, but I don't think any more so than vice versa.  I don't think this forum has too much intolerance going around.  I may express my stances strongly when I feel it's appropriate, but I do my utmost not to pressure people into disengaging.  I try to explain why I believe what I do, and leave it open from there.

I commented on your post the way I did, because I get exactly the opposite vibe from you, which has gotten worse over time.  You used to provide a lot of really good information, and still do on rare occassion.  You've had a real influence on my perspective on some things.  But a lot of what you direct at people you disagree with feels like "Sit down and shut up, know-nothing pleb."  I know you feel like you get the same from some other people, like Redking or MSH, but I've been hanging out with them on this forum for a few years and the way they behave towards you is a rather exclusive thing.  And no, it's not because you're the only person around who holds the perspectives you do.  So even after realizing your post was meant as satire, I still think it's ridiculous.  It's exactly this kind of thing that drives people like me away constructive engagement in politics.  You lament the rise of low-information cynicism, but the way to combat that is to invite people to the truth.

MSH was dead on about satire looping back on itself and tying in knots.  Props for being so meta.

[mainiac]

SalmonGod, could you please do me a favor and provide a definition of satire that you think is pretty solid?

[WealthyRadish]

Yes, I know....polls this early, blah blah blah. But people said the same thing when Trump started showing early strength in the GOP primary too.

I'm telling ya man, we are fucked.  Start stockpiling ammo.

When they came for O'Malley, I still hadn't registered, because I didn't bother voting for a ghost.
When they came for Sanders, I still hadn't registered, because I didn't bother voting for a dead man walking.
When they came for Hillary, I still hadn't registered, because I didn't bother voting for a sure thing.
When Trump came for me, I still hadn't bought his steaks, but there was nobody left to save me from them.

[birdy51]

I have to agree with SalmonGod's sentiments...

I have more to say in that whole subject, but not quite enough time to do it immediately. I'll collect my thoughts and I'll try to post it later.